The Galant experience - suitable for an old fart?

Hi team.

I'm a long term lurker and first time poster.

Having previously owned an S15 200sx, the greying hairs on my head are telling me that I need something a little more practical and refined but without sacrificing too much performance. You see, the back seat of a 200sx is designed for midgets, double leg amputees or those with an intimate knowledge of the kama sutra

I've read a lot of the topics in the general index thread but my questions have a slightly geriatric slant to them. Bear with me.

I'm looking for a practical, refined, reliable 4 door car with decent performance. I test drove a few WRXs but they're a little bit too hooligan for an old fart like me. For the money, there doesn't seem to be anything that fulfills the above criteria as well as the Galant or Legnum.

What I want to know in particular:

1) Refinement and luxury - How is the refinement and luxury aspects of the Galant? Does it have a supple ride and good noise suppression? How would it compare against, say, the WRX or 200sx?

2) Handling - One of the things I loved about the S15 was how nimble and "chuckable" it was. You could take corners and round abouts at more than double the recommended speed. Now I know the VR4's have AYC. However, are they nimble and adept at cornering? I drove a friend's V6 Magna and that thing was horrible at tight corners and round abouts ... not that I'm suggesting that the Galants are a tarted up Magna!

3) Best place to buy one - From a quick gander at Carsales, it appears as though on the cheaper end, you can pick up 98 Legnum with 90k on the clock for a $10k asking price:

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?R=6630411&__Qpb=true&Cr=0&__Ns=pCar_Price_Decimal|0||pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&__N=1216%201247%201282%201252%201246%204294964597%204294957255&silo=1011&seot=0&__Nne=15&trecs=49&__sid=11E73C11B811

On the more expensive end, a 2001 Legnum with only 50k on the clock asks for $14k:

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?R=5532205&__Qpb=true&Cr=2&__Ns=pCar_Price_Decimal|0||pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&__N=1216%201247%201282%201252%201246%204294964597%204294957255&silo=1011&__No=15&seot=0&__Nne=15&trecs=49&__sid=11E73C11B811

I'm after a facelifted manual Galant VR-4, Spec S, ideally 2000+ model and with low kilometres. Where do you gents suggest is the best place to buy this? Is it through Ozvr4? Through one of the importers? Or a car yard? What would be the typical price range for this?

I'm pretty patient and already have a car so I can wait for the exchange rate to improve (if it improves at all!).

4) Where to test drive - Are there any places in Sydney that you recommend where I can go for a no pressure test drive? I've never driven a Galant before so am keen to see what the driving experience is like.

5) Reliability and maintenance - Are the Galants generally reliable? When things go wrong, do they go wrong often and with big $$$ consequences? Are there many mechanics in Sydney that are familiar with servicing the Galant? I understand that the car is quite particular with certain servicing aspects such as the AYC. Hopefully, it's not a "cheap to buy but expensive to run" kind of car!

6) Manual vs tiptronic - I prefer manual but to those who have driven both, is the tiptronic a better proposition? Presumably, the tip box is weaker and more expensive to maintain that the manuals?

7) Anything else - Is there anything else I should know about the Galant ownership experience?

Appreciate your thoughts.

Bruce.

1) I had a 2004 Subaru Liberty before this.. That car felt so refined, so solid and well composed.. It was comfortable, quiet and smooth..
When I was selling the Liberty, I was shopping around for cars of similar criteria to yours.. Had to still feel solid and refined, couldn't be like an old 180 falling apart full of rattles.. Had to perform well, be AWD, etc etc..
The EVO's I wanted were out of my price range, and the 04 WRX's were too.. But the WRX was very "uleh" if you will..
When I spotted a Galant on CarSales, I went out and took it for a spin..

It handled beautifully, it was quick, felt so comfortable.. Everything inside felt similar to the Liberty.. So I was pleased

My experiences in a WRX and EVO.. they were quite a 'raw' car, this one feels more like the subtle beast.. Like it can be a comfortable cruiser when you want it to be, or it can be a beast when you want it to be..

2) I havent drive, or been in a Galant with AYC.. mine is the facelift Type-V.. meaning, it doesnt have the AYC that the Type-S has.. So I'll leave that to someone else to talk about! But I hear lots of good things haha..
The handling with the standard AWD is quite good, I throw it around a few roundabouts and twisties with no worries
Just dont hit the brakes in a corner, once you break traction in a AWD on a corner it can be very hard to regain control, as I've learned while avoiding a Kangaroo LOL..


3&4) Go to some import dealers to take one or two for a spin, then maybe (if you're willing to wait) talk to one of the importers on this forum and see how they can go about filling all of your criterias for a car
If you go for a facelift, I say try and get a Type-S because that'll have the AYC.. Where as the Type-V doesn't come with AYC (all ore-facelift had AYC though I think)

5) Petrol costs, well, you'd be used to paying alot with your S15 yeah? haha..
Parts are harder to come by for the Galants and Legnums, but it isn't a major mission.. You may have to contact someone in NZ (as theyre so common and cheap there), but it isn't usually too hard to find stuff..
There is a wrecker there called Kempys.. They'll have pretty much anything you need, and from what i've heard you can usually get it within a week, 2 max.. I'm finalizing an order with them now too..
ClubVR4.com is another site full of resources on the VR4's if you want to check it out too.. It is mostly UK and NZ though! But still quite handy..
Parts I've been told are interchangable with EVO4's.. like radiators, etc..
You can take your car to Meek in Sydney, they specialise in EVO and they know their VR4s too..
I'm sure most Japanese places would know them too, maybe not experts, but these cars aren't the most common here really..
There is a topic with VR4 friendly mechanics list

6) I'm manual biased

And yeah, hope i helped a bit!

Lol Tom....

2) AYC is magnificent. Not intrusive like traction control but can pull you out of tight situations. My daily has an LSD which i find to be good because it is predictable too (I've always owned RWD cars )

6) Manual vs Auto - My auto box is currently being rebuilt. There is a common fault with them that a few have experienced on here. It would leave my manual behind in a straight line though with similiar mods. Clutches don't last forever in the manuals, but they are more fun and mine uses less fuel around town. All a preference thing i think. Car seems more matched to the auto though

Search the site for a Type - S and Type - V comparison too..... Especially if you are buying a facelift Galant!

And like i posted in your intro thread, where are you from? You might get one of the boys to take you far a drive if they are close to you (some might even let you drive their car! )

I came from an S14 to a Legnum ... the S14 was nothing compared to the legnums interior ... the S14 was just a fun car to drive ... but also getting older and having no room to stick freinds in the back I too decided on a change.The drivability changes alot. It compares to driving a V8 smooth torqey performance. The later model Facelifts have a nice suede, the climate control is great (no such thing in the S14). The AYC is clever and really surprises u when ur in a larger car. Take one for a test drive, or meet up with some of the guys in ur area to take u for a spin.

Good Luck !!

cyber_scriber said:

I'm after a facelifted manual Galant VR-4, Spec S, ideally 2000+ model and with low kilometres.

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Sorry to tell you but we are all pretty sure that doesnt exist, I dont think that anyone on here has ever seen or heard of a manual facelift type S. If you are looking for a facelift Manual Type S you are going to have to go for a legnum. If you really want a manual facelift galant the only way you can get one is if you get a Type V.

Hope that helps and doesnt put too much negativity on what your looking for.

Yeah what Jarrad said ^^^

If you really want a Galant and AYC you will have to settle for a prefacelift manual, or get a facelift auto.

The good news however is that all Manual Facelift Legnums are Type S's.


As for your individual points:

1. They are very nice places to be driving in, apart from tyre noise imho. You can get some underseal stuff to spray on the insides of the wheel arches which helps a LOT and you can also hunt down some good quiet tyres to help a lot. My only real complaint against the cars after 4 Legnums and 200,000km or so of driving them. Everything else, climate control, seats, positioning of steering wheel, is just bang on for a long distance tourer.

2. They are very good but imho you need to get some stiffer springs on them and change to 17" wheels to get them handling really well. A common option is EVO 7/8/9 wheels as they fit straight on, clear evo brembos (which bolt straight onto a facelift VR-4) and have a good offset so they fit well in the wheel arch. The standard seats are a bit useless, great for cruising in, but not for corners. Some have Recaro's but this is a rare option, only available on a limited run of prefacelift (Super VR-4's, but only 260hp), or on some facelifts.

3. I would first look in the forums here, then around a few car yards. If you still can't find anything that matches what you want, go to Iron Chef who is simply the nicest guy you will meet and who imports cars from Japan.

4. Go along to a meet, you'll see a variety of cars which may help you choose your options (and colour!) and if you ask nicely you might get a co-pilot or even a pilot job in one of them

5. Pretty damned good, the engines and manual gearboxes are bullet proof. The stock clutch is weak though, especially if you up the boost. The AYC is generally good as long as you put the right oils into it.

6. You're dead right about the Tip being less reliable and more expensive to maintain (and repair) but it is a very good auto gearbox.

7. You will NOT find a better all round car in the world for under $40k

^^^ what they all said.

Just how geriatric are you, anyway? We're not ALL young whippersnappers here...

my dad sometimes drives my car to the golf and he loves it (he is 64).

3. i bought it from the car yards and well, i was very lucky to find what i needed. leather, moonroof, tiptronic for my wife and all that. if you want a specific option or model, it might be difficult to find one. recommend importing if you are happy with them. there are many legnums and all that at parramatta rd these days but bit risky i guess.

mookers said:

^^^ what they all said.

Just how geriatric are you, anyway? We're not ALL young whippersnappers here...

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Ditto. Mel

My Dad's 62 and a very proud Legnum owner. Loves it.

If your local to me your welcome to take mine for a spin. Happy to help convert new VR4 drivers.

Especially if you still have the s15 and let me take it for a spin

I appreciate all of the feedback and the information is very useful.

Tom, I understand exactly what you mean with the WRXs. After test driving a few of them, I just wasn't interested in buying a baseball cap and bat (and I don't even play baseball). I don’t like Louis Vuitton either … well, not enough to drive my car through the front shop window to get kitted out in it … lol!

In relation to the S15's fuel use, the good thing is that it has a 2 litre turbo motor in a relatively light weight package (around 1260kg from memory). So if you took it easy, it was great on fuel (even got 750klm+ from a tank of cruising down the coast once). This is where I have a reservation with the Galant - 2.5 litre twin turbo motor motivating around 1,500kg of mass can't be great on fuel consumption or nimble handling. I can't wait to get behind the wheel of one because I've read that the Galant's tricky AWD and AYC manage to mask its mass when cornering.

pu-11-me and J-B, have you had guys had a chance to drive a non-AYC Galant/Legnum? From what the guys are telling me, it's impossible to get a very late model Galant, Type S in manual with AYC so I'm keen to understand whether there's a significant difference in handling between the AYC and non-AYC models. I had a look at some pics of the Legnum and whilst I feel old, I'm not THAT old to get a wagon ... lol!

takumi, your insights are invaluable as you pretty much went from the same car I had to the one that I want. Like you, I got tired of the uselessness of the 200sx's back seats and boots (as well as every second P plater and V8 Commodore wanting to race me at the lights!).

bradc, I think what you've said is leaning me towards a manual. Being an import, reliability is key for me as I don't want the car off the road waiting for parts to arrive from overseas. If the manual is both stronger and more reliable than the auto, then that's good enough for me

mookers, I'm actually not that old in terms of age but I'm old in terms of how I feel! I'm (just) on the wrong side of 30. However, I'm over my younger days of insanely fast cars that required a kidney belt and earplugs to ride in. Driving a mate's Honda Integra Type R really confirmed to me that the crazy old days were done and dusted. Refined performance is what I'm after and the Galant seems to have it in spades.

Iron Chef, 2 thumbs up to the old man - good on him! I bet he likes to surprise some of the young P platers in their riced up cars!

matchtheclown, fair is fair and if I still had the S15, I'd throw you the keys for sure. The problem is that I've now got a Mazda 323 but am happy to swap test drives if the offer is still there

Cheers and thanks again for all of the feedback.

I'll probably get lynched for this, but if a wagon isn't for you, have you considered a Chaser?

4 door goodness
bullet proof 1J engine (with VVTI)
underated 206kw with 377nm of torque @ 2400rpm
1480kg
Toyota reliability at it's best

Obviously you miss out on 4WD with AYC but you do have TCS (not that you'll ever have it on) with the option of an LSD (a must have). Manuals are a fair bit dearer but the auto is a superb box and certainly doesn't disappoint. I think there's a few other guys on here that have/had one also.

Just putting it out there.


Ohh Kristian............. where are you?

Consider yourself LYNCHED !!!!!!!!!!!!!
someone get the tar and feathers !!!!
No accounting for some peoples tastes
BRB..... going to throw some bombs on
the "Chaser Forums" & Cup Cake them all

cyber_scriber said:

I had a look at some pics of the Legnum and whilst I feel old, I'm not THAT old to get a wagon ... lol!

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i was 21 when i bought my legnum.

"Hi, my names Steve, and apparently I'm old because I drive a wagon..."




<-- 30 and thats not old man...

I was 19 when I bought my first Legnum, a nice 98 Facelift at the end of 2003, then a VR-4 Legnum in May 2005, then another VR-4 Legnum at the end of 2006, then another one at the end of 2007.

Might be buying another Legnum soon too

I personally (and all the Galant owners are going to hate me for this) do NOT see a point in buying a Galant. They take up the same amount of room on the road as a Legnum and are the same to park etc, but are simply less practical. There is not a single thing that the Galant is better at than a Legnum!

Ohh and uhh Bruce, just go along and meet up with someone who has a facelift Legnum VR-4, you'll love it!

Some people just don't like the "station wagon" thing... to each their own I guess!

Personally I love the idea of a soccer mom mobile that can tear up the road.

cyber_scriber said:

pu-11-me and J-B, have you had guys had a chance to drive a non-AYC Galant/Legnum? From what the guys are telling me, it's impossible to get a very late model Galant, Type S in manual with AYC so I'm keen to understand whether there's a significant difference in handling between the AYC and non-AYC models. I had a look at some pics of the Legnum and whilst I feel old, I'm not THAT old to get a wagon ... lol!

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I'm 21 and own 2 wagons hahaha

One has AYC and one has a LSD

One is auto and one is manual

I have done lots of comparing

AYC is a great system..... But if you want a manual Galant in facelift you can live without it i'm sure

You cannot get a facelift Galant in manual with AYC. You CAN get a Legnum with this combo though.

Type-S has AYC, Type-V doesn't. ALL facelift Galant manuals are Type-V....

mitchy said:

i was 21 when i bought my legnum.

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My story is much the same, and I've been driving wagons since my teens. I'd find it really hard to go back to a sedan now.. Where would you put your stuff?!

np - Legnums are f'king hot looking wagons anyway.

bradc said:

I personally (and all the Galant owners are going to hate me for this) do NOT see a point in buying a Galant. There is not a single thing that the Galant is better at than a Legnum!

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And there is countless high-performance sedans out there to choose from, not so many twin-turbo wagons.