10mm ARP head studs in Australia headstuds

Discussion in 'Engine, Transmission and Drivetrain' started by slickd1, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. slickd1

    slickd1 Wizard Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2014
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    NSW
    First Name:
    Matthew Dundon
    Drive:
    1998 EC5W Manual Legnum.
    This is just a thread to summarise some info for those of us going flex and needing ARP head studs and to discuss where to buy in Australia.
    I'll update this first post as new things come to light so it's an easy find for members looking for the info. Will also want help to fill in some blanks (in Red, if you can PM or post the answers or additional questions I'll update this first post for easy searching)

    Fastening sequence I believe is:
    7 1 3 5
    6 4 2 8

    Quick Info (10mm):
    • Brand: ARP
    • Material options (in order of strength): 8740, 2000 (~22% stronger), L19, AGE 625
    • Number Required: 16 of each
    • Studs: AM4.500-1LB
    • Nut: 300-8343
    • Washer: 200-8519
    • Fastening torque for installation: 60-65ft lb (8740), [73ft lb (ARP2000)apparently non-existent?]
    • The toyota 3 S GTE kit: Part number 203-4204 (10 studs, nuts and washers) we require 16

    Quotes so far are not the cheapest but here they are below:

    8740 material 10mm studs
    • Rocket ($408.16):
      • ARAM4.500-1LB $15.00inc GST ea. Special order ex. USA + freight
      • AR200-8519-1 $3.30inc GST ea. Special order ex. USA + freight
      • AR300-8343 $7.21inc GST ea. Showing 20 in stock
    • Fabre ($556.16):
      • ARP-AM4.500-1LB° ARP STUD 4.500 LENGTH 1.25 PITCH 1.25 PI 16 $17.70 $311.52
      • ARP300-8343° ARP 10mm x 1.25 7/16 12pt nut 16 $8.70 $153.12
      • ARP-AMW750N° ARP WASHER (Same as ARP200-8519) 16 $5.20 $91.52
    • Performance Wholesale Australia ($410) :
      • This is for 16 studs, nuts, and washers in the 8740 material.
      • contact Scott Kempthorne Log in to view
    CA625 and ARP2000 material 10mm studs

    From Sam at ARP:
    If the block is a M10-1.25 thread, than I only have the 8740 Chrome Moly or the Custom625 (280,000 psi) to offer. This indicates that there are no ARP2000 material studs available to suit, despite what some of the ebay and online stores claim.

    The CA625 stud number is:
    AM4.500-10LB @ ~$38.27ea


    • Performance Wholesale Australia ($1045) :
      • This is for 16 studs, nuts, and washers in the CA625 material.
      • contact Scott Kempthorne Log in to view

    Quick Info (11mm):
    recommended by the geniuses due to higher strength, 11mm studs require the removal of the heads and tapping of the block to accommodate the larger studs. http://www.ozvr4.com/threads/how-to-re-thread-your-block-to-take-11mm-evo-head-studs.15338/

    material info the same as above, but 11mm studs are significantly stronger

    @6A13TT TYPE S @trotty @LDundon @TME_Steve

    Massive thanks to Adam for all his knowledge and hard work taking photos and uploading of his build.

    arp quote.PNG
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2016
    aiwasaki, 6A13TT TYPE S and NuffNuff like this.
  2. 6A13TT TYPE S

    6A13TT TYPE S 3 AYC Bars Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,114
    Likes Received:
    1,372
    Location:
    New Zealand
    First Name:
    Adam
    Drive:
    1999 Legnum VR4 Type S
    The base ARP material is 8740. For a 10mm stud the 8740 material has a 60ft/lb torque (
    81Nm) you can buy better grade studs which I would reccomend if your doing bigger that stock turbos or E85 as 10mm studs really dont cut the mustard. ARP have their own "brand names" for materials as they go past 8740. First is 2000, then L19 and their best is Custom age 625+. The toyota 3S-GTE 8740 stud kid is 220nzd for a 10 stud kit, where as if you drill and tap your block and heads to receive 11mm studs you can use late model 4G63T studs which even in the base 8740 material torque to 80ft/lb (108Nm) and are only 190nzd for a set of 10 studs.
     
    LDundon, slickd1 and NuffNuff like this.
  3. AKKO

    AKKO 2 AYC Bars Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,442
    Likes Received:
    313
    Location:
    WA
    First Name:
    Chris
    Drive:
    1998 Galant VR4 Type-V (Facelift)
    Remind me how does this compare to the OEM bolt spec?
     
  4. 6A13TT TYPE S

    6A13TT TYPE S 3 AYC Bars Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,114
    Likes Received:
    1,372
    Location:
    New Zealand
    First Name:
    Adam
    Drive:
    1999 Legnum VR4 Type S
    Not particularly comparable as the stock bolts are "torque to yeild" and steels behave differently when yeilded. But the stock bolts are about comparable to 8.8 high tensile where the ARP 8740 is marginally better than 12.9 grade high tensile. Thats the good thing about the ARP, because you dont yeild them (stretch them past the point where they don't stretch back) you can reuse them. Where as stock bolts a scrap metal once they have been torqued to spec once. The one down side is you need to retorque ARP studs back to the reccomended spec after one engine heat cycle after installation to ensure you dont loose fastener preload from the likes of threads, gaskets and washers seating and settling down into eachother after being up to operating temp. Some times you can get another 1/4 to 1/3 of a turn on the nut!
     
    LDundon, slickd1 and AKKO like this.
  5. TME_Steve

    TME_Steve 3 AYC Bars Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,609
    Likes Received:
    586
    Location:
    NSW
    First Name:
    Steve
    Drive:
    2010 nt did pajero tow car / 2000 6spd gc8 wrx tarmac rally car / 2000 Manual Subaru Outback 2.5 just a car
    Personally I'd always go for the 2000s. They're the sweet spot of the range imo, the L19 and the ca625s need care with handling as well. Barts bmw that the op knows of had ca625s.... And wasn't looked after properly, and snapped a rod bolt on startup. The current engine has 2000s. If you're pulling the heads off (which you should be to replace bolts) then 11mm is almost a no brainer. That said a 10mm 8740 is still much stronger than stock, as adam said you're talking greater than 8.8 vs 12.9 and given the stock ones are seemingly on the limit of e85, if you're not looking to go beyond combustion chamber forces greater than what yields 500nm atw then i don't see you'll need more than an 8740 10mm. I'd go one step more to 2000 because I'm like that though (actually I'd go to 11mm because I'd pull the heads off but i get why you don't want to do that).
     
  6. 6A13TT TYPE S

    6A13TT TYPE S 3 AYC Bars Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,114
    Likes Received:
    1,372
    Location:
    New Zealand
    First Name:
    Adam
    Drive:
    1999 Legnum VR4 Type S
    The L19's require care when handing due to the reactivity of the material, (very susceptible to hydrogen embrittlement). The CA625+ is only marginally stronger than the L19 but the material is alot more stable. If your mates car snapped a 625 bolt on startup I would put it to incorrect installation (torque method not stretch method) not the same type of stuff that effects L19. That being said any normal type rust on a fastener will cause stress risers and that sort of stuff which vastly weakens them. But yes for the marginal increase in price from 8740 to 2000 material your silly not to. And again if your taking the heads off like you should when doing studs your silly not to do the 11mm upgrade as 8740 11mm is considerably stronger than 10mm 2000. So if you get 2000 11mm studs you wont be lifting heads any time soon.
     
    LDundon and trotty like this.
  7. slickd1

    slickd1 Wizard Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2014
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    NSW
    First Name:
    Matthew Dundon
    Drive:
    1998 EC5W Manual Legnum.
    This is really awesome info! Thanks a million for sharing it.

    I'm keeping stock internals and td03's, but going E85. I wanted to be able to do it without pulling the heads off if possible as I'm trying to avoid using our spare engine and building it (problems with funds and employment at the moment so I'm on a budget), not looking at pushing above 250kwatw, just want to be on flex with the option to chuck in some E85 and have some fun at the drags or on a track occasionally.

    They are only threading into an alloy block, so does the block eventually become a weakness with 10mm studs across that thread length, ie; am I better off using the higher grade head stud to compensate for the 1mm smaller sized bolt if I don't want to pull the heads off, or is that pointless because it's the thread in the block that's the weakness?

    So am I still looking at the same part numbers from that 3SGTE kit? Or are the numbers going to be completely different for a stronger material?

    Now to find the price difference with 10mm 2000 material studs.

    Updating the first post, and thanks again for all this info, it should help a few people to have it in one place.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
  8. 6A13TT TYPE S

    6A13TT TYPE S 3 AYC Bars Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,114
    Likes Received:
    1,372
    Location:
    New Zealand
    First Name:
    Adam
    Drive:
    1999 Legnum VR4 Type S
    The blocks are iron not alloy. If you dont wanna take the heads off as steve said your best going for 2000 material 3S-GTE ones as L19 has the embrittlement issues and Ca625's are horrifically expensive. Part numbers will most probably be different but I cant tell you what they are as ive never bought 2000 material 10mm studs.
     
  9. TME_Steve

    TME_Steve 3 AYC Bars Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,609
    Likes Received:
    586
    Location:
    NSW
    First Name:
    Steve
    Drive:
    2010 nt did pajero tow car / 2000 6spd gc8 wrx tarmac rally car / 2000 Manual Subaru Outback 2.5 just a car
    Barts bmw studs failed from corrosion. Left some up out of oil for ages.... then again they could have been L19s but fairly sure they ca625s. Anyways get the 2000s. You'll be fine in a 10mm Matt.
     
    slickd1 likes this.
  10. slickd1

    slickd1 Wizard Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2014
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    NSW
    First Name:
    Matthew Dundon
    Drive:
    1998 EC5W Manual Legnum.
    Additional info added to the first post

    "ARP 2000 material is 22% stronger than standard ARP 8740 material resulting in a stronger head stud. Standard ARP stud kits for the 3SGTE have a recommended ultimate torque of 60 ftlbs. These can be safely torqued approximately 22% higher for more clamp force (73 ftlbs.) for better head clamping at a fraction of the price of what L19 head studs cost (over $300!!)"

    The toyota forums recommend 65ft lb despite the 60ft lb recommended by ARP, there seems to be some backstory to this but didn't delve into too much detail. either way 65ft lb is definitely recommended for the 10mm 8740 material studs in the 3SGTE block
     
  11. slickd1

    slickd1 Wizard Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2014
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    NSW
    First Name:
    Matthew Dundon
    Drive:
    1998 EC5W Manual Legnum.
    but then I have received info from Sam at ARP saying that there are no ARP2000 material studs in the same size as the 3SGTE and that they only come in 8740 or CA625...

    so back to the 8740 material for me I think.
     
  12. jungle

    jungle 3 AYC Bars Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Messages:
    3,356
    Likes Received:
    605
    Location:
    QLD
    First Name:
    Simon
    Drive:
    1 PFL & 1 FL Legnum
    It's all well and good to say 11mm if you doing a complete rebuild, sure. People just running flex then the ARP 3sgte will be fine.
    I guess we'll see how good the standard 10mm ARPs are with mine. E85, cams, hi-flows. If it breaks then I'll fix it.
     
    slickd1 likes this.
  13. slickd1

    slickd1 Wizard Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2014
    Messages:
    359
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    NSW
    First Name:
    Matthew Dundon
    Drive:
    1998 EC5W Manual Legnum.
    When will yours be together and ready to test? Definitely keen to see how it goes, and how the high flows turn out!
     
  14. jungle

    jungle 3 AYC Bars Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Messages:
    3,356
    Likes Received:
    605
    Location:
    QLD
    First Name:
    Simon
    Drive:
    1 PFL & 1 FL Legnum
    Good question, Well asked. Waiting on my mechanic. Can someone say FRUSTRATING:banghead:
     
    slickd1 likes this.
  15. BFun

    BFun Leaving Skid Marks

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    525
    Likes Received:
    75
    Location:
    NSW
    First Name:
    Ben
    Drive:
    '99 Legnum VR-4 Type-S
    Yeah, keen on seeing how those high flows perform...
    My rear turbo is on its way out, so definitely looking at a set in the near future..
     
    LDundon and slickd1 like this.
  16. TME_Steve

    TME_Steve 3 AYC Bars Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,609
    Likes Received:
    586
    Location:
    NSW
    First Name:
    Steve
    Drive:
    2010 nt did pajero tow car / 2000 6spd gc8 wrx tarmac rally car / 2000 Manual Subaru Outback 2.5 just a car
    Ship it down here ;)
     
    slickd1 and naughtika like this.
  17. TME_Steve

    TME_Steve 3 AYC Bars Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,609
    Likes Received:
    586
    Location:
    NSW
    First Name:
    Steve
    Drive:
    2010 nt did pajero tow car / 2000 6spd gc8 wrx tarmac rally car / 2000 Manual Subaru Outback 2.5 just a car
    I would go them. And they'll be fine for you. Like i said. The factory bolts seem to be on the edge of ok, 8740 are way stronger so would be fine. I'd go to 2000s but if not available, 8740 would be my pick
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016
    slickd1 likes this.
  18. jungle

    jungle 3 AYC Bars Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Messages:
    3,356
    Likes Received:
    605
    Location:
    QLD
    First Name:
    Simon
    Drive:
    1 PFL & 1 FL Legnum
    :ROFLMAO: I like you Sonny, I kill you last
     
    slickd1, naughtika and TME_Steve like this.
  19. 6A13TT TYPE S

    6A13TT TYPE S 3 AYC Bars Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,114
    Likes Received:
    1,372
    Location:
    New Zealand
    First Name:
    Adam
    Drive:
    1999 Legnum VR4 Type S
    FYI my how to rethread your block to 11mm is the the writeup section. Also see the below chart for faster preloads for different materials and torques
    tmp_23389-2016-02-11 15.16.27-844726590.png
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 1, 2016
  20. jungle

    jungle 3 AYC Bars Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Messages:
    3,356
    Likes Received:
    605
    Location:
    QLD
    First Name:
    Simon
    Drive:
    1 PFL & 1 FL Legnum
    Interesting info Adam!

    @TME_Steve @6A13TT TYPE S

    So here's one then. Why aren't the boys in UK reporting head stud issues with the decent number running around the 300kW mark with TD04's?
    Why is E85 sooooooo different that its caused Steve and Trotty's head lifting when they are no where near the TD04 figures hp/TQ?

    I'm not being smart, genuinely interested.
     
    LDundon and slickd1 like this.

Share This Page