A Global dynoing for VR4 - send me a datalog and I will make a dyno plot

lateshow

Leaving Skid Marks
Location
Finland
First Name
Lauri
Drive
TD04 Galant (Type-V)
I've been watching the global scene of dynoing of our cars and I suspect that there are great differences even in the measured whp numbers due to different kind of dynos. However there are some other ways to estimate power levels. Injector Duty Cycle measurement (when fuel pressure is known and AFR is optimal this may tell you about power leves), Ecuload can also help to measure the air flow itself.

I have been using this software called Dynovision. It reads evoscan logs.

What is needed for a virtual dyno estimate:
- a datalog with full throttle, with 3rd or 4th gear, starting from 2000 rpm pedal to the floor and ending as the revs hit the limiter (about 7500 rpm)
- at least engine rpm and TPS have to be logged
-also id recommend to log 2byte ecuload, timing advance, AFR or boost if available, intake air temperature, injector duty cycle
- the run has to be made on a straight road, no cornering, no up or downhills

Instructions:
1. See that you have these items selected for datalogging: RPM (standard or 2byte), ecuload (2byte with right scaling, timing advance, boost (is available), AFR (if available), intake air temperature (from MAF), Injector duty cyle and all the required other stuff.
2. Find a good place to make the test run. Watch for the police and remember other safety stuff.
3. Get ready and start the datalog with about 40 kph at 3rd gear.
4. Full boost. Pedal to the metal. Lift your foot when you hit the rev limiter or just a little before. Normally around 140 kph with a manual car.
5. Stop the datalog. Done.
6. Gather the following info: Car type (sedan, estate, FL PFL, accessories, needed for weight), Tyre info (eg. 225/45/17), weather info (Temp, is the road wet), transmission info (manual, auto, any special gearing?)
7. Send me the datalog and the info.

Getting this kind of data from you guys interests me greatly and this kind of comparing and investigation would benefit us all. For instance good guidelines for what what maf would read for an ecu load and what are the standard injectors good for. I can estimate engine power since we have pretty good guess that driviline loses about 22% of power.

For instance my car was dynoed for 456 hp / 570 Nm with dyno dynamics dyno. This method tells that I have 451hp/575Nm....can't really say that this is the truth but this method puts our vr4s to the same line. In the same picture is a dyno plot of a vr4 with standard boost, E85 and a rainy day. It was also two of us in the car and an ayc but this has all been taken into account. Blue line is ecuload for that pull.

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I will post the same thread on Clubvr4 for attention from the British audience.

Please send me a private message or just post info here and send me your datalog to my mail address yli-rosti (@) hotmail.com . Tell me all there is to know about your car. I replaced the @ with _(@)_ to distract mail bots.

Generally if the results are shit I atleast get good basic info about Injector duty cycles and ecuload levels. Remember that driving downhill is cheating :D
 

Grid

Leaving Skid Marks
Location
Poland
First Name
Tomasz
Drive
Legnum 6A13TT, Galant 6A13
Could you provide a link to the software as well? Seems to be a community effort from MLR, but nowhere to be found anymore...
 

mookers

puri puri
Location
Frankston, Melbourne, VIC
First Name
Derek
Drive
CL9 Accord Euro Lux, GE Jazz VTi, Evil Supervillain Chair, Homemade Portable Square Drumkit
- a datalog with full throttle, with 3rd or 4th gear, starting from 2000 rpm pedal to the floor and ending as the revs hit the limiter (about 7500 rpm)

OzVR4 advises that this should be done on a track or on a private road, or perhaps on an unrestricted stretch of Northern Territory highway. If you do this on a normal road or freeway, we don't want to know about it :p
 

lateshow

Leaving Skid Marks
Location
Finland
First Name
Lauri
Drive
TD04 Galant (Type-V)
Could you provide a link to the software as well? Seems to be a community effort from MLR, but nowhere to be found anymore...

I couldn't find the installer anywhere either. Is this somekind of a freeware software that it is legal to distribute it here?

This seems to be way more useful than Evoscan virtual dyno -function.
 

Grid

Leaving Skid Marks
Location
Poland
First Name
Tomasz
Drive
Legnum 6A13TT, Galant 6A13
OzVR4 advises that this should be done on a track or on a private road, or perhaps on an unrestricted stretch of Northern Territory highway. If you do this on a normal road or freeway, we don't want to know about it :p

In the US they say "Somewhere in Mexico"
In Europe we say "Somewhere in Germany" or "Somewhere on the Autobahn" :p
 

lateshow

Leaving Skid Marks
Location
Finland
First Name
Lauri
Drive
TD04 Galant (Type-V)
Found the install file. I can mail it to somebody if I'll get an address?
 

Grid

Leaving Skid Marks
Location
Poland
First Name
Tomasz
Drive
Legnum 6A13TT, Galant 6A13
PM sent. Also I'll get a log for you as soon as I can get my car boosting properly
 

Kaldek

2 AYC Bars
Premium Member
Location
Melbourne
First Name
Ed
Drive
2000 Legnum VR4 Manual, Ford Territory family runabout, BMW K1300R.
PM sent. Also I'll get a log for you as soon as I can get my car boosting properly
Same. My tune is ugly at the moment and shouldn't be referred to by anyone!
 

veegeeta

Leaving Skid Marks
Lifetime Member
Location
qld
First Name
shane
Drive
fto with 6A13TT & bf xr6 turbo
My tunes and logs are Steve's secret lol .sorry
 

lateshow

Leaving Skid Marks
Location
Finland
First Name
Lauri
Drive
TD04 Galant (Type-V)
Same. My tune is ugly at the moment and shouldn't be referred to by anyone!

This isn't about looking at your tunes. It's more of about the fact how much it takes time for your cars to do a certain acceleration. This is propably the only international way to compare results since dynos show lots of stuff. I'm thinking that for instance in some parts of the world dynos express wheel power ratings for 4wd which are actually quite close to power from the crank. Here in Finland we have quite good dynos that can calculate the actual power from the crank by free rolling.

And we have tested what kind of timing advance is right because after a certain point you don't get more power. Even with E85. I know what a pair of td03's can flow and certainly won't believe that it is possible with standard cams to reach much over 200 kW from the wheels. Ecuload levels or injector duty cycle levels would give some proof of that though.


So in general i'd just like to compare how fast the cars and what kind of power they (possibly) make. Even with an "ugly tune".
 

AKKO

2 AYC Bars
Lifetime Member
Location
WA
First Name
Chris
Drive
1998 Galant VR4 Type-V (Facelift)
What do you mean by much over 200kW, has been done on 98 let alone e85...
 

lateshow

Leaving Skid Marks
Location
Finland
First Name
Lauri
Drive
TD04 Galant (Type-V)
We have been tuning cars here on dyno and after a certain point adding timing doesn't help. According to dyno sheets maximum output with 98E has been around 330-340hp which translates to your 190-195 awkw. With E85 we have achieved a little better 350-360hp which then translates to about 200 awkw. Estimations for engine power are calculated with about 22% losses. In general I can't believe that there's some kind of magic in the air on the other side of the world (actually it's much hotter there which would mean less power) so by comparing how fast your cars are on the road we can have some data. I WAS suspecting that your dynos in general are a little more optimistic than here but then I heard what you guys get out of standard cars and those numbers aren't that optimistic.


If you guys don't want to share your dyno logs maybe like 80-120 times with 3rd gear would be a good benchmark ???
 

Jakevr4

Leaving Skid Marks
Location
Queensland
First Name
Jake
Drive
99 Galant vr4 type s (auto),10 Grand Cherokee Overland(auto),91 Rodeo (350 chev th350auto).
12.8 at 109mph is what trotty ran at the drags.
 

Dice

1 AYC Bar
Lifetime Member
Location
Gold Coast QLD
First Name
DiceR
Drive
Galant VR-4 2xT25bb
Nissan Cube
I WAS suspecting that your dynos in general are a little more optimistic than here but then I heard what you guys get out of standard cars and those numbers aren't that optimistic.

We have 2 brands of Dynomameters, Mainline and Dynapack. We commonly use Mainline even though it isn't as popular simply because the few trusted Mitsubishi specialist workshops here have them. Dynapack usually read higher than mainline.

A good healthy car will do 180kW and higher on a mainline dyno. It's only the exceptional ones that record >195kW on 98.

Also Australia is a very large country, we have a mix of hot an cold areas especially cold in some cities during winter. Despite this I have used different 3 mainline dynos in hot and cold weather with 2 showing identical results and a 3rd showing 4kW higher after I did transmission maintenance. So we are generally very happy with the consistent performance of mainline dynos in different weather as long as they are maintained correctly!
 

lateshow

Leaving Skid Marks
Location
Finland
First Name
Lauri
Drive
TD04 Galant (Type-V)
12.8 at 109mph is what trotty ran at the drags.

I think that a newer EVO needs about 300hp from the crank to do that. One thing is for sure, trotty must be a talented driver.

Takeoffs are so hard for out car's drivelines that I would never try that. Or if I had an extra transfer box, maybe.
 

lateshow

Leaving Skid Marks
Location
Finland
First Name
Lauri
Drive
TD04 Galant (Type-V)
Dice: That sounds more reasonable. I think this has much to do with the condition of the turbos....and boost control. Over boosting at midrange may cause issues.
 
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