Coilover Spring Rates

[CoolBreeze]

Hello!

what spring rate are people running in their Galant coilovers?
I have been recommended 14kg / 4kg as the more comfort orientated option without sacrificing too much performance.
I'm looking at getting some MCA X-C's in the near future.

 

[Gav]

Galant or Legnum??

 

[CoolBreeze]

Sorry, Should have specified.
Galant

 

[Dice]

Very strange spring rate combination, I've never seen any system sold with spring rates that far different front to rear.

 

[CoolBreeze]

This recommendation is straight from the horses mouth, so to speak. I have been looking around and a common set up is 8kg / 5kg. or 10kg / 6kg
I'm a little concerned 14kg is going to be HARSH!!!!!! however I don't really know enough about coilovers to have an opinion yet.

 

[Dice]

I had 12 or 14 in the front (I think that was it) and it was a very harsh ride. 8KG in the rear was especially harsh though. I don't mind a harsh ride for sharp handling however I'm now think half that spring rate would probably be ample.

Check out @TME_Steve's test on factory https://www.ozvr4.com/threads/stock-and-bilstein-coilover-damper-and-spring-rates.11571/#post-238187 they measured at 3.7/2.8KG

 

[jungle]

Hello!

what spring rate are people running in their Galant coilovers?
I have been recommended 14kg / 4kg as the more comfort orientated option without sacrificing too much performance.
I'm looking at getting some MCA X-C's in the near future.

I'd put that into context. That is the spring rate in one of many MCA setups. It's they can do it because their dampers are excellent. Anything else available for Vr4 would be farken awful with those rates

 

[Dice]

Steve maybe you can clarify for us - was the 14/4 recommended in MCA?

 

[CoolBreeze]

It was.
I did reiterate the car is NOT a track car and definitely don't want a 'drift' setup. The previous ISCs I had fitted were backbreaking and would hate to shell out that much money for something that wasn't explicitly after.
Just conducting research at this point and while I fully trust the manufacturers recommendation I was just opening it up to forum comment.

 

[6A13TT TYPE S]

My Tein Flex's have 8kg front 5kg rear and its great on the street. Definatly not enough spring for the track though, which Is why I wanna sell the Teins and get some MCA Reds in future

 

[GLen20]

Some info here:
https://www.ozvr4.com/threads/upgraded-your-suspension-fill-out-the-suspension-survey.14424/

I would rather have softer springs with increased damping (ie: better quality damping) than springs that are too stiff.
You can dial the damping/rebound up to increase control, but you can't get rid of the effects of springs that are too taught (poor ride quality).
Springs that are too soft though will lose you overall performance as the car leans excessively etc.
If I had my time again with the ISC coilovers I'd probably go 8/6.3kg (and not run them too low!)

 

[BFun]

Just FYI, I have MCA XRs with 17kg fronts and 5kg rears. Ride doesn't feel any stiffer than the 8/5kg Teins and it handles amazing.

Ask Steve/gman/Tophler

 

[mookers]

haha my TEIN SuperWagons are so nice and cushy at 5/3 - hardly any stiffer than stock, but as long as I don't hit wavy bumps too fast it's no problem bottoming out. Definitely a family cruiser, not a track car.

 

[Kenneth]

Your spring rate should be determined by the height of your car. The lower you go, the higher the spring rate you need so that the spring has the right amount of "capacity" to allow the suspension to move properly within the limits of travel. This means using the entire travel from static height to and including the bump stops. To do this requires suspension where you can adjust the height such that, given a flat surface, your car will never bottom out.

Harsh ride is usually a sign of over dampening. In many cases you can't get the dampening right because the spring rate is wrong for the dampener and the adjustment in dampening is unable to correct a design imbalance between rebound and compression.

Most of this is totally subjective too. When I was younger, I thought low and hard was good, cheap was king. Now I prefer moderate height, comfortable and am willing to pay the extra for a setup that has everything (which IS possible).

If you just want a good ride at a good height and don't want to faf about, I would skip adjustables and find a good suspension shop who will build you the setup you want with springs and correct dampening for that and for you.

 

[TME_Steve]

Sort of. Anyways. Depends what you want. The front will not feel too stiff like the rear on an mca. They are damped really well. In the last 12 months I've really had my eyes opened to what you can do with suspension with the correct valving. Josh (mca) and i talk rates and travel issues on suspension setups at least weekly now and usually 2 or 3 times.

The motion ratios are completely different front and rear and there is way more weight over the front than the rear. Factory setups use the bump stops to an extent to stiffen the spring as well, kinda quasi variable rate.

I would also point out that a tein 8/5 setup is less comfortable than an mca xr 17/5 setup (eg bfuns) in my opinion. That said you can certainly go more comfortable than that with mca. 14/4 will be pretty comfortable but talk to us to get it right. It may end up at 14/4 but then again it may not. Out of all the vr4s that mca have done, only a handful have not been through TME. We are giving them the feedback on the setup.

And don't forget how important setup is. We installed a set about 6 weeks ago and the heights were all wrong on the initial install, we took it for a drive to settle it in before getting the heights right and corner weighting. It actually felt pretty ordinary. We then got the heights where we wanted and corner weighted and aligned the car. It was COMPLETELY different. It felt fantastic like we've come to expect.

As another example we just did an sti with xc's. It came in with stock suspension. Now this sti is about 250kg lighter than a legnum and has McPherson strut suspension so with it running 7/5 spring rates, it would be like a legnum running maybe 14/5.5 ish. Sorta kinda. Client feedback: "my wife says the car is more comfortable now than before". That's with something like a 50% spring rate stiffness increase (not sure, just a guess).

My car ran 8/6.3 with bilsteins. It felt way harsher than any mca car. That said it also had massive swaybars. Bfuns with only the small cusco bars and mcas would be at least a second a lap quicker around Wakefield. And with less power.

 

[BFun]

My car ran 8/6.3 with bilsteins. It felt way harsher than any mca car. That said it also had massive swaybars. Bfuns with only the small cusco bars and mcas would be at least a second a lap quicker around Wakefield. And with less power.

All I got from that was that my car is better.

 

[TME_Steve]

It is Ben. Yours is way cleaner than mine was. Pity about the color

 

[Nitephyre]

<snip>
And don't forget how important setup is. We installed a set about 6 weeks ago and the heights were all wrong on the initial install, we took it for a drive to settle it in before getting the heights right and corner weighting. It actually felt pretty ordinary. We then got the heights where we wanted and corner weighted and aligned the car. It was COMPLETELY different. It felt fantastic like we've come to expect. </snip>

That car sounds eerily familiar... what are my spring rates again?

 

[TME_Steve]

Yours ate the same as bens 17/5 xr

 

[Gav]

My car ran 8/6.3 with bilsteins. It felt way harsher than any mca car. That said it also had massive swaybars. Bfuns with only the small cusco bars and mcas would be at least a second a lap quicker around Wakefield. And with less power.

can you get different bilstein springs to make the ride better @TME_Steve