KKR 280 turbo upgrade on the 6A13
- Thread starter Madhav
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so to confirm what you are saying.. these KKR280s are similar sized if not bigger than TD05's?that would be nice.
no they are smaller, between a TD04 and TD05
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You dont even have to change the plugs to use the sard ones, all that was needed was spacing the rails up by 10 or so mm. Because of the V configuration you do need to rebend / remake the link between the rails though. Was friggin easy to be honest.
Also Valmes has some 800cc injectors, but i cant remember the specs :redface: It sounds like you might be getting more into those realms tho.
If you are going to go for a replacement ecu, then why not just go for some evo ones, or anything else that you can make fit.
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having looked around more,
its nearly the same as a TD05H "small" 16G
theres less than 1mm difference in the inducer. the exducer is the same size,
the ar is the same at .49
and don't know about turbine design? probably very similar?
its nearly the same as a TD05H "small" 16G
theres less than 1mm difference in the inducer. the exducer is the same size,
the ar is the same at .49
and don't know about turbine design? probably very similar?
naughtika
OzVR4 Stalker
OT.. Paul, I assume you've met up with Simon?
Sure have. He's a very cool and knowledgable guy. He taught me a bucketload in the 15 minutes we chatted! And I met the engine builder, Phil. My GOD his workshop is awesome. It's a massive double garage full of engines and machinery and then half of his house as well. The coolest thing I've ever seen.
/OT.
/OT.
- Thread starter
- #28
Found this post on some other forum
"Some facts on KKR, to help reduce some of the confusion.
Yes they are a plain bearing or 'bush' type turbo. A lot of people put too much weight on this specification, when really the way the turbo performs on the engine is what matters and there are clearly plenty of users who are happy with the results.
They come with a 6-month unlimited replacement warranty, which is the best warranty offered by any turbo manufacturer to our knowledge.
They are not the same as the many 'ebay turbos' that have been mentioned. These are manufactured by a company which builds turbos for various European OEM customers, using all German machines.
They are not a direct bolt-on for any particular engine, but the work required to fit a KKR430 or KKR480 to an RB20 or RB25 is not very complicated and the whole job can be done in half a day. It is true that with a dump pipe and installation the KKR480 will cost $1500-1600, but compare this to most other options and you will find it is still extremely cheap. Remember fitting any turbo, including a 'bolt-on kit' will cost a few hundred in labour.
As for power output, we have seen many RB25s making 240-260kW at the wheels with a KKR480 and 16-18psi boost. We have also seen the odd unusual example making close to 300kW, but given the manufacturer rating of 480hp, mid-200s are a realistic expectation.
We have yet to see any KKR430 turbos used in a high boost application, but with 12-14psi we have seen 180-215kW at the wheels on RB20 and RB25 applications. The smaller exhaust housing and turbine make it less suitable for high-boost applications, but it is very efficient at moderate boost levels.
On an RB25 a KKR480 will deliver full boost at around 4000-4500rpm, depending on tuning, cam timing etc. A KKR430 will deliver full boost by 3500rpm, but both turbos begin to produce boost from much lower rpm.
Ultimately the results will vary a lot depending on tuning and the other parts fitted to the car, but keeping in mind the price, the KKR turbos are hard to beat on a dollar-per-horsepower ratio."
"Some facts on KKR, to help reduce some of the confusion.
Yes they are a plain bearing or 'bush' type turbo. A lot of people put too much weight on this specification, when really the way the turbo performs on the engine is what matters and there are clearly plenty of users who are happy with the results.
They come with a 6-month unlimited replacement warranty, which is the best warranty offered by any turbo manufacturer to our knowledge.
They are not the same as the many 'ebay turbos' that have been mentioned. These are manufactured by a company which builds turbos for various European OEM customers, using all German machines.
They are not a direct bolt-on for any particular engine, but the work required to fit a KKR430 or KKR480 to an RB20 or RB25 is not very complicated and the whole job can be done in half a day. It is true that with a dump pipe and installation the KKR480 will cost $1500-1600, but compare this to most other options and you will find it is still extremely cheap. Remember fitting any turbo, including a 'bolt-on kit' will cost a few hundred in labour.
As for power output, we have seen many RB25s making 240-260kW at the wheels with a KKR480 and 16-18psi boost. We have also seen the odd unusual example making close to 300kW, but given the manufacturer rating of 480hp, mid-200s are a realistic expectation.
We have yet to see any KKR430 turbos used in a high boost application, but with 12-14psi we have seen 180-215kW at the wheels on RB20 and RB25 applications. The smaller exhaust housing and turbine make it less suitable for high-boost applications, but it is very efficient at moderate boost levels.
On an RB25 a KKR480 will deliver full boost at around 4000-4500rpm, depending on tuning, cam timing etc. A KKR430 will deliver full boost by 3500rpm, but both turbos begin to produce boost from much lower rpm.
Ultimately the results will vary a lot depending on tuning and the other parts fitted to the car, but keeping in mind the price, the KKR turbos are hard to beat on a dollar-per-horsepower ratio."
Interesting read Madhav. How long have they been around for? I've never heard of them but that means SFA 
.
Have you heard if their backup service is as good as the warranty itself? By this I mean have you heard if they try to weasle their way out of claims etc? I'm not trying to diss the brand, just interested.
.Have you heard if their backup service is as good as the warranty itself? By this I mean have you heard if they try to weasle their way out of claims etc? I'm not trying to diss the brand, just interested.
Interesting read Madhav. How long have they been around for? I've never heard of them but that means SFA
Have you heard if their backup service is as good as the warranty itself? By this I mean have you heard if they try to weasle their way out of claims etc? I'm not trying to diss the brand, just interested.
KKRs have been around for a few years in Aus. Probably the most respected of the cheapo turbo brands.
- Thread starter
- #31
Interesting read Madhav. How long have they been around for? I've never heard of them but that means SFA
Have you heard if their backup service is as good as the warranty itself? By this I mean have you heard if they try to weasle their way out of claims etc? I'm not trying to diss the brand, just interested.
The engineer who'd doing the work uses them in his drift car, he specifically asked when buying them about whether the warranty would be effected because of his uses, and they said it's fine...
Also in relation to the potential lag issues, the bigger 'kombat series' turbos designed for big hp single application were laggy as they are bigger turbos... but I think this kkr 280 has a smaller compressor, turbine and exhaust turbine housing, this allows a lot quicker spool up... also since then they've upgraded to 360-degree thrust bearing, rather than 'bush bearing'.
I personally think it would spool quicker than the TD05's....
Actually its all speculation at this stage as no one has done it and therefore nobody really knows from experience, lets wait and see what the dyno shows us.
Dr_Josh001
Leaving Skid Marks
How far along are things atm Madhav? Are the 2 1/2" to 3" front pipes going to be used? Are you going to bigger 3" intercooler pipework?
That's some good literature on the KKR's.
Josh
That's some good literature on the KKR's.
Josh
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good luck with the project bro...
But IMHO I am still thinking that u should go with garret hehhe...but if you heard good thing about KKR turbo then go on sure you'll see a good results too....
as for the lag, it's not going to be that bad. I have a single turbo on my car. The turbo kick in around 3800 rpm. But since our engine is V6 2500cc, you still have a good low rpm power before u reach the turbo boost zone or you can drop down the gear to get the desire rpm to get the turbo boosting early. Also since the turbo is kick in around 3800 rpm, I think the car is more friendly when u r using the car to commute daily. This is my experience so far with the single turbo upgrade.
But IMHO I am still thinking that u should go with garret hehhe...but if you heard good thing about KKR turbo then go on sure you'll see a good results too....
as for the lag, it's not going to be that bad. I have a single turbo on my car. The turbo kick in around 3800 rpm. But since our engine is V6 2500cc, you still have a good low rpm power before u reach the turbo boost zone or you can drop down the gear to get the desire rpm to get the turbo boosting early. Also since the turbo is kick in around 3800 rpm, I think the car is more friendly when u r using the car to commute daily. This is my experience so far with the single turbo upgrade.
- Thread starter
- #36
Size comparison of the two turbos.
Hi Josh, things are getting closer mate, firewall was getting a massage when I checked today, from here the remaining work is just the plumbing. Wayne said to me this morning that most of the time that was spent on this job was actually thinking about how things are gonna fit due to the lack of space.
I will use the RPW front pipes, custom dumps are gonna be needed though. I'm assuming the cooler pipes will remain at 2.5" That part of the job is the easiest according to him, so I'm not really worried.
Thanks hoffman, maybe next time, but lets see how these turbos go, maybe they will suit the engine just fine?
pretty big difference in size there isnt it.. i knew how small ours were but its good to see comparison with the KKRs.
- Thread starter
- #39
Thanks for all that great info mate,
Here seems to be my options if I'm not wrong:
560cc Evo injectors (6 x injectors for $450 delivered off ebay)
They fit, although they're a little long so need fuel rail adjusted, also need either a resistor pack or a full ECU to adjust the impedance level. (The guy on ebay can actually give me a resistor pack)
Sard injectors: (6 x for around $870 delivered from RHD)
Either in a kit for the chaser/soarer/mark II, R32GT-t or just buy them individually. Should fit with minor fuel rail mods, they are the right impedance so no need for resistor pack. Various cc, 450-800cc
200sx 530cc injectors: (6 x for around $400 delivered off ebay)
I know nothing about these? Just read it on club VR4 that they may fit? Love some more info!!
Nipondenso 450cc injectors (6 x for around $1200 from RPW)
Direct fit, no mods nec, but the price is silly!
If I could get away with keeping the miniceptor whilst putting in bigger injectors, then this would save me a packet as the haltech E11s are expensive.
If there's no other way, then I'll get the E11, but I'd prefer to not have to get both the E11 and the nipondenso injectors, ends up costing far too much.
Any ideas and I'm all ears.
Thanks a lot for your input
bradc
1 AYC Bar
No point in going to 450cc injectors, they aren't much bigger than stock and very expensive!
