Learning how to drive AWD

[happymatch]

well, i have been testing my AYC today since it was cold and just got bleed. i have noticed for drivers like me - hmm average - if i get to learn how to control throttle better on my cornering, i can make a dramatic improvement.
I know the rule of the thumb like, do not brake while you are actually "turning" and try to follow the right line.
However, the most obvious mistake i usually make on the fast cornering is that either i brake too much before the entry and does not control the throttle or, not enough braking so i tend to let the right foot off the accelerator. Which means car just "glides" thought the corner, not taking the full advantage of awd. Am i correct?
Being a long time front wheel drive car owner, i have the habbit of forgeting that my leggie is awd. From my understanding, to benefit from awd system and especially AYC, i need to have a good throttle control on the car.

Anyone has good tips about good cornering with our cars?

Auto by the way..

 

[Guest]

Well if you go in too fast the front slides too!

If you take it to the next track day you can test it and learn a lot and keep pushing to find the limit and pass the limit sometimes very fun

 

[cyber_scriber]

Jono.

AWD cars tend to benefit from the "slow in, fast out" approach. That is, you do all your braking before the corner and you adjust your speed appropriately so that you can use the AWD grip to power down early and sling shot out of the corner. Rexies in particular seem to do this well.

Having only recently picked up my Galant, I'm still working out its handling. It seems a bit more cumbersome on corner entry than my S15 (probably a function of the additional weight) but the grip levels do feel higher.

The key is practice, practice, practice! Preferably in a safe and predictable environment.

 

[leebutts]

Definitely get some more track time, I thought I knew the car well from spirited road driving, but there is a whole other side to it out on the track (which I found on my first flying lap when I spun at about 100km/h!).

It was only my first time out so I can't give you any tips but I think what Bruce says about using the 4wd grip to get on the throttle early is a good one.

 

[VR-04-TT]

There are other techniques to combat understeer, which we suffer, where you apply the brakes very lightly with your left foot and still power on with the right. It pulls the front of the car down by reducing the weight shift to the back. It's very effective in FWD cars (I used it in my old magna a fair bit), can be used in our AWD cars as well.

I'm definitely no expert at it (in fact my technique description may be even off - any racers care to correct or elaborate?), it's weird to get used to. I started by just finding an empty car park and doing 20-0 stops with my left foot as smoothly as possible, then 40-0 etc, until my left was as smooth as my right.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's called trail braking or just left foot braking?

 

[pu-11-me]

Brake enough to not understeer on corner entry, once the car is lined up with the corner apex hit the throttle and keep power on until corner exit.

From the apex of the corner your car should have the correct balance to shoot you out the other side. If your car oversteers on the way out, ride it out. A balanced car should be fairly easy to control, even if it is a little sideways!

Hope that helps

 

[steveP]

see ive had my silvia for 4 year, and used to go for hill thrashes quite a lot (adelaide has some awesome twisty roads only 10 mins out of town). even tho its rwd, i kinda learnt what techniques work. and really the best advice i can give u is to just do what feels natural. i never go by any rule saying no braking while corning. every corner is different in entry/exit speed, gradient, length, sharpness, etc. so trying to find a style that will combat all corners is kinda pointless.

i think its more knowing ur car and having the confidence. like on a track ur more inclined to push ur car a little harder than the street, coz u know if u spin out, ur not gona get wrapped around a tree.

with the vr4 vs my old rwd silvia, i find that the best way to corner is to hit the corners fast. seeing its awd, u know it will grip. so i would have a much faster corner entry speed than my silvia, and the ayc is good for this. then just feather the throttle until exiting the corner, and plant it. but like i said before, if u need to brake mid corner, do so if it feels natural to that specific corner.

 

[Tom]

I need more cornering practice lol build up my confidence more!

I'm more so in to nice cruising now instead of cornering like mad

 

[Kenneth]

Unfortunately the tendency to under-steer is a weight distribution issue. Because the weight is ~60/40 front/rear, there is more force pushing the front away from the corner apex than the rear.
In an ideal world, this wouldn't make much difference because the additional weight on the tyres would compensate. In practice (which is why tyre width is so important) this isn't the case and the front ends up with less grip, hence under-steer.

The tendency for the VR-4 to provide more torque to the rear on acceleration does alleviate the issue, as the torque difference works to even out the weight difference (more acceleration force to the wheels which had more grip), but you need to be accelerating to get this.

You can quite easily test this at track on a tight bend (easier in the wet) by driving up to it at a decent speed (not TOO fast though!) and then trying to turn with no brakes and no accelerator. It shouldn't be hard to get the front sliding.
If you then approach a bit slower, line up with the steering wheel, then progressively use the accelerator, you should be able to get the back coming around nicely.
If you balance it perfectly, you should get some neutral drift from the inside to the outside of the track.


So, in my experience, if you slow down a bit early (slow in), take a slightly late apex and then get on the gas in such a way that you experience neutral drift to the outside of the track, you should naturally be experiencing maximum forward acceleration (fast out) all the way to the corner exit, where it is probably now time to change gear. (Being a bit low in RPM at the apex is a good way to limit torque and make the accelerator a bit more forgiving)

Technically the late apex etc may not be the absolute fastest way to go around a corner, but it does mean that you have a small safety margin because you start getting to your grip limit with forward acceleration combined with lateral G force. This means that if things start going bad, gently (and I mean gently) backing off the accelerator will give you back some lateral grip.


Safety first. If you feel a bit unsettled, slow down and start again. If you think its time to stop, don't do that last lap (or whatever)... its the one that will get you.

 

[Tom]

Great write up Kenneth

 

[mookers]

This really makes me want to take my car to the track!

 

[pu-11-me]

Lol Kenneth,

Have some rep for a good write up. You basically went into details I couldn't be bothered posting haha, but its spot on IMO.

And Derek, get out and give it a go, you'll love it

 

[Kenneth]

Cheers for the rep

Someone took the time to teach me so am happy to pass it on

I found the best way to learn is to sit suicide with with someone who knows how to drive, then let them drive in front as you follow and try to keep up.

 

[Scottie]

Like everyone says, you really have to try it for yourself.

This is my third AWD car now and i am still learning the physics and limits of it. A few times i have found myself approaching something like a gutter or pole sideways and have just kept my foot flat and wheels aiming where i want to go and it pulls through.

A few times the AYC has tricked me tho. Accelerating around a corner with tyres screeching, waiting for traction to break and then 3 bars light up and it seems to find a little extra to get around.

 

[Buckas]

ive found the same, too fast in and the nose will just keep running wide till the kerb is worryingly close. get on the power mid corner and just keep it down. i found on gravel or in the wet just point it where you wanna go, plant it and you'll have a little 4 wheel drift but will still feel the ayc holding you.
mind you i am still on crappy compliance tyres and they seem to slide on almost anything with enough power whether its the front or rear sliding so i tend to try and make it the rear, easy to control

 

[swift5_8]

I found that if you come in with fair bit of speed and glide into the corner then the car slides but if you keep the accelarating even a bit it will take the same corner no problem, this is very unatural way to drive as you want to slow down but you need to accelerate and if you go wrong and chicken out and back off then you slide again IE if you going to practice do it somehere with lots of space - but this works great once you get a hang of it as our wagons pack a heap of weight at in the ass

 

[Kenneth]

Another thing (Since I am seeing a lot about AYC)

From my understanding, AYC is a device intended to assist in cornering by controlling yaw so that the car travels in an optimal line around corners. NOT as traction control.

That being said, going fast around a corner, tyres screeching etc. doesn't always result in 3 AYC bars. The fewer AYC bars you see, the less work the AYC diff is doing and the better the result (at least in corner speed)

So, if you're goal is driving fast (we all know sliding is fun), try using the AYC as a helpful tool where less bars is better.

 

[pu-11-me]

Always remember - "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast"

I'll give rep to whoever can pinpoint the movie first

 

[Kenneth]

Shooter?

 

[pu-11-me]

Damn you..... You will be the site master shortly haha