My engine whine was not the alternator...

Kaldek

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Ed
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2000 Legnum VR4 Manual, Ford Territory family runabout, BMW K1300R.
OK folks, so you may recall I said "ohhhh my alternator is whining and I need a new one". So I bought a new one and then made a big deal about how the new alternator also whines.

Well, I'm an idiot and it wasn't the alternator. I've just removed all the drive belts and the engine is still whining. It's coming from somewhere in the area, so what could it be? The noise started suddenly some months ago.

It sounds a bit like gear whine. You know, the sound that straight cut gears make? Or the sound of a supercharger.

Looking for some of your ideas on what you all think it might be.

 

Gt_Galant

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Galant
Hey
It sounded like what my project did we replaced one of the pulleys that the timing belt gos on, I think it was the idler we changed and left the timing belt tensioner pulley.
I think if you spray a little wd40 on that idler I think sound will go away for a bit, I think that's how we found out, not saying it is but honestly sounded so close to the noise mine was doing.

Edit: my idler looked fine before we changed it and still looked good when it was off.
 

Kaldek

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Hey
It sounded like what my project did we replaced one of the pulleys that the timing belt gos on, I think it was the idler we changed and the timing belt tensioner pulley.
I think if you spray a little wd40 on that idler I think sound will go away for a bit, I think that's how we found out, not saying it is but honestly sounded so close to the noise mine was doing.
Thanks mate, I'll do that next.
 

Kaldek

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No dice on the idler. Was hoping to get closer to the water pump but you have to get the harmonic balancer off the crank first, so you can remove the plastic cover.

Bit worried about this noise actually.
 

unclepaulie

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have you done the timing belt recently?

@puk33 's 6a13 makes a similar supercharger type whine. always has. beleive it his timing belt idlers. might be a direction to go in?
 

Kaldek

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Timing belt, pulleys and water pump were changed last October or so. Then the tensioner bolt snapped in late December but amazingly didn't cause it to skip time. Had the tensioner assembly and timing belt replaced (as it had rubbed on the alternator housing). Car was fine up until earlier this year when the whine started up, which caused me to replace the alternator like the douchebag that I am.

To the best of my hearing, the whine is coming from this side of the motor and the reason I changed the alternator is because the noise was very loud there using a stethoscope - i.e. a long screwdriver.
 

trotty

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What bearing did u replace it with when doin the timing belt? I had one fail prematurely. And second how did u adjust the timing belt? It could be too tight/too loose causing the whine with belt vibration.
 

Kaldek

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This is where I tell you Mits Fix fitted and adjusted the belt. I fitted the idler pulley though.
 

NuffNuff

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Mine does this whine/wurble since all belts and pulleys were changed ages ago and has been for about 30,000km

Was extremely quiet before the major service was done
 

Kaldek

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Mine does this whine/wurble since all belts and pulleys were changed ages ago and has been for about 30,000km

Was extremely quiet before the major service was done
Hmm. Where did you buy your water pump from?
 

TME_Steve

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Guessing dead bearing in an idler pulley or the water pump but wouldn't rule out overly tight belt. Have you checked the tensioner gap as i described by pm yet?
 

Kaldek

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Tensioner gap is very small. I can still slide the pin in and out of it some 7 months after it was fitted by Mits Fix.

If I recall, the correct procedure is to install the tensioner with the pin installed, adjust the tensioner pulley to 5Nm of torque, tighten and then remove the pin. After this I would assume the piston moves at least a *little*.
 

jungle

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Sounds like the timing belt noise to me. Mine does this a bit but not as pronounced as yours.
My nissans used to do this when the timing belt was too tight.
 

TME_Steve

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Tensioner gap is very small. I can still slide the pin in and out of it some 7 months after it was fitted by Mits Fix.

If I recall, the correct procedure is to install the tensioner with the pin installed, adjust the tensioner pulley to 5Nm of torque, tighten and then remove the pin. After this I would assume the piston moves at least a *little*.
That's not correct. The torque is a guide at best. Pin removed. Align the cam marks. Then rotate the crank twice. Then wait 5 mins exactly. Then measure the gap on the tensioner. Must be between 3.8mm and 4.5mm. The pin is like the torque, a guide. But don't measure straight away. Don't measure in 10 mins. Yes it makes a difference. Even if you leave it over night. Spin it twice, wait 5 mins and if it was setup right before it will be setup right still. The 5 mins matters i cannot say this enough. And don't be shocked if the pin won't slip in and out once the distance is right. Just go off the distance.
 

Kaldek

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2000 Legnum VR4 Manual, Ford Territory family runabout, BMW K1300R.
Exact same sound as my car - suggests timing belt is too tight.

Skip to exactly 7 minutes in. No, I don't know why he is wearing a crown.
 

Kaldek

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So, obviously I'm going to check and adjust timing belt tension. I'll get back to you all when I get that done.
 

6A13TT TYPE S

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the belt shouldnt be overtight unless you wound on the manual tensioner so tight that it bottoms out the hydraulic unit. but as steve said take the covers off and check the protrousion of the hydraulic piston so ensure it is in spec.
 

Kaldek

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the belt shouldnt be overtight unless you wound on the manual tensioner so tight that it bottoms out the hydraulic unit. but as steve said take the covers off and check the protrousion of the hydraulic piston so ensure it is in spec.
Yeah, I didn't fit the tensioner and replacement belt so I don't know. Odd that the noise suddenly started though some weeks after the belt was fitted.

Will still check it.
 

Kaldek

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OK folks I have checked and adjusted the belt tension. The tensioner piston was already in the correct position as confirmed by sliding a pin into and through the locking pin hole.

I removed and checked the tensioner and it functions as designed (it resists compression and has an as-expected strength of extension). I re-fitted the tensioner with a pin installed, and set the tensioner cam with a torque wrench set to the required 3Nm of torque. The engine still whines, but I believe it might be mildly quieter. Having said that, those new audible tests were with a hot motor.

At this point I have to move on to looking at and considering:
  • Bearings in the (new) water pump
  • Bearings in the (new) idler pulley
  • Brand of belt fitted to the car
 
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