Ralliart vs GAB vs Bilstein suspension

[VR4S]

STOCK 2000 GALANT EC5A (Type S)

Spring Rate Front 4.5kg
Spring Rate Rear 4.3kg
Front Height 385mm
Rear Height 365mm


RALLI///ART (Currently installed in My EC5A) (Pretty much same as KYB AGX but tuned by Ralliart)

Front 4 Steps Damper Adjustment
Rear 4 Steps Damper Adjustment
(Approximately 30% variance)

Height Not Adjustable

(OPTION 1)
Ralliart Spring Rate Front 4.2Kg (20mm lower)
Ralliart Spring Rate Rear 2.9 Kg (20mm lower)

(OPTION 2)
Espelir Spring Rate Front 4.6kg (35~40mm lower)
Espelir Spring Rate Rear 3.8kg (30~35mm lower)


GAB (Rare Discontinued Products)

Front 4 Steps Damper Adjustment
Rear 8 Steps Damper Adjustment
(Approximately ??% variance)

Height Not Adjustable (30~40mm lower than std)
Spring Rate Front ??Kg
Spring Rate Rear ?? Kg


BILSTEIN

Non Damper Adjustable

Height Adjustable (30~40mm lower than std)
Spring Rate Front 10.0Kg
Spring Rate Rear 4.0Kg


ASSUME THEY ALL THE SAME PRICE AND YOU ONLY GET TO CHOOSE 1 SET
WHICH ONE WOULD YOU CHOOSE??

1) RALLI///ART Strut with RALLI///ART Spring?
2) RALLI///ART Strut with ESPELIR Spring?
3) GAB Strut?
4) BILSTEIN Strut

Of course there are others such as TEIN or CUSCO but my aim here is for overall comfort, handling and durability. I chosed the above 4 as the the strut design and the spring design match the stock.
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[bradc]

I'd get the full bilstein setup and get 6kg rear springs made up to match

 

[naughtika]

why does the rear spring have that lower spring rate compared to the stock ec5a springs?

also with the bilstein, wouldn't that cause more understeer since the front is 10kg and the rear is 4kg?!

 

[godzilla]

A little off topic i am sorry but i have a set of GAB in my Leggie and the numbers on top of the shocks in the engine bay have worn off and i cant make out which way AC or C to turn the adj to make it stiffer. If anyone else has a set could they let me know? Thanks heaps.

 

[VR-04-TT]

I've got the Bilsteins in my car. The ride is great for me, very firm, but not that kidney smashing hard. Feels very strong on the road. I'm not sure if my springs are different to those though.

 

[VR4S]

Seems many people used Bilstein.

My concern is that, isn't 10Kg Spring Rate sounds a bit harsh,

Since it is non damper adjustable, adjusting the height, would definitely change the bounce and re-bounce rate ??? I don't know what the characteristics would be???

 

[jungle]

Seems many people used Bilstein.

My concern is that, isn't 10Kg Spring Rate sounds a bit harsh,

Since it is non damper adjustable, adjusting the height, would definitely change the bounce and re-bounce rate ??? I don't know what the characteristics would be???

Will, a common mis-understnading is that a strong spring will have a hard/harsh ride. That is incorrect, it all depends on what damping engineers have designed the valve stack inside the shock to do.

That said, I would querry that number as it seems excessive but then again, it could be the rear that is wrong

 

[VR-04-TT]

For comparison's sake, I'd be happy for someone to measure my spring rates if they know how to.

Unless there is something written on them? I have absolutely no idea.

 

[VR4S]

Hey Thx for the advice, but yeah, your point does make sense. The damping is usually the major technical point when it come to ride.

I'm really curious to seat on someone car who has the Bilstein.

My friend did put similar Bilstein on the Celica, it was pretty ok but since he add the swaybar, wow, it is a magic.

But again for the Galant & Legnum, might bring out different characteristic.

Currently, I'm using the Ralliart with Ralliart Spring - It's good but, I felt that the spring is bit too soft and the car seat too high.

Will, a common mis-understnading is that a strong spring will have a hard/harsh ride. That is incorrect, it all depends on what damping engineers have designed the valve stack inside the shock to do.

That said, I would querry that number as it seems excessive but then again, it could be the rear that is wrong

 

[jungle]

Paul- yes there is, i've had it done for me, don't know the formula required to work it out- i do however know what measurements required, but that doesn't help any


Will- damping ie the valve stack is everything, a spring is a spring is a spring. The stack is where its at ( hey that rhymes )and really determines everything.

 

[VR-04-TT]

I found a few guides Simon, do any of these jog your memory?

http://www.my-acoustic.com/Car/handling_secrets/spring_rate/how_measure_spring.htm

http://www.leespring.com/engguide4.asp?mypdfstr=C9

Not that it matters too much a I don't have the equipment to do it. Maybe I'll get them measured when I get swaybars later on.

 

[jungle]

No i don't know the formula, it was worked out for me by a suspension engine after i gave him the springs dimensions. Its easy to do, but without the formula we're stuck

 

[ersanalamin]

I bought ralliart shock absorber from naugtika. I have a problem to fit the oem vr4 front spring onto ralliart front absorber. The ralliart SA a slightly bigger than the stock vr4 SA. It wont fit unless modified. does anybody knows how to fix this?

 

[Slinz]

I was under the impression that the ralliart absorbers had ralliart springs to go with them..?

 

[ersanalamin]

I was under the impression that the ralliart absorbers had ralliart springs to go with them..?

Was it sold with ralliart spring included?

 

[Slinz]

I thought so, but I may be wrong. Best to PM Christian to find your solution to this one.

 

[eddyvr4]

i thought crudely measuring the spring rate should be fairly easy - Firstly, a 10kg rate means for every 10kg of load = 1mm of compression

Simply sit on one corner of the car (or load up one corner with significant mass, at least 100kg.) and measure the drop in guard height. divide the Kg by the mm drop = the spring rate.
Or, repeat experiment with the new and old springs installed all round and work out the percentage change in rate that way...... ie 10mm drop on OEM springs, then 5mm drop on the new spring means the rate has doubled.

sounds a bit dumb, but should work quite well for a 'backyard' method, as the spring is loaded with the static vehicle weight, so you are measuring the rate right at its operating range of travel, not when totally uncompressed which is likely to be a different rate, even for a 'linear' rate spring. Or you could load up with 3 different masses and average the results for a more accurate measure..

 

[unclepaulie]

i thought crudely measuring the spring rate should be fairly easy - 10kg rate means for every 10kg of load = 1mm of compression

Simply sit on one corner of the car (or load up one corner with significant mass, at least 100kg.) and measure the drop in guard height. repeat with the new springs installed all round and work out the percentage change in rate that way...... ie 10mm drop on OEM springs, then 5mm drop on the new spring means the rate has doubled.

sounds a bit dumb, but should work quite well for a 'backyard' method, as the spring is loaded with the static vehicle weight, so you are measuring the rate right at its operating range of travel, not when totally uncompressed which is likely to be a different rate, even for a 'linear' rate spring. Or you could load up with 3 different masses and average the results for a more accurate measure..

theres method in eddy's madness

 

[eddyvr4]

you could also use this method to see what your actual current spring rate is, when considering an upgrade.

however, comparing static spring rates does not give a full indication of the difference in ride or handling, as the damper rate/s also need to be considered.

eg if you double the spring rate, but go with an soft (or adjustable) damper and set the damping right down, the ride may only be a bit worse, not 'twice' as bad, as you might expect with a doubling of the spring rate...

thats why adjustable dampers are a highly desirable option, you can run a stiffer spring but compensate when you want a softer ride by winding down the damper.

 

[bradc]

Ersan, yes I've had the same problem too. You could get a shop to cut out the inner part of the spring slightly or just get a matching set.

Eddy, the sway bars and springs on the other 3 wheels would screw it all up. It could be used to compare against a car with 5kg and 8kg springs, but you'd never have it anywhere near accurate