Intercooler water sprayer idea...
- Thread starter Poita
- Start date
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There is no factory water spray set up in them nor do we have a factory water spray system. I meant as in, having the ecu re-tuned (for various reasons...power, economy etc) and having the feature 'installed' in the ecu remapping programme.
- Thread starter
- #23
I haven't forgotten this!
Steve... Is there a way to monitor the pulse width and duty cycle while tuning the ecu? Thought the coming tune weekend might be a good opportunity to grab some data. I have some breathing space at work and the incentive now my bigger intercooler is being installed this weekend!
Steve... Is there a way to monitor the pulse width and duty cycle while tuning the ecu? Thought the coming tune weekend might be a good opportunity to grab some data. I have some breathing space at work and the incentive now my bigger intercooler is being installed this weekend!
- Location
- SA
- First Name
- Bill
- Drive
- 2000 Galant Type-V
1997 MK Triton GLS [6G74 conversion]
2019 i30 N-Line
To sense engine load they use the air flow meter output to the ECU. Now I haven't had a play with the Legnum's electrical system yet so was hoping someone could help.
- What is the voltage range of the air flow sensor from 'no load -> full load' ? Is it 0-12V or 0-5V?? Also where is this cable? I don't have a wiring diagram
- Is there a better way to sense the engine load?
- I am happy to make more if this works out so any suggestions of any other additions/improvements while I am in the design phase?
Airflow sensor is a digital output 0-5v. as airflow increases, frequency increases. There is also a reset signal for the AFM.
i've been currently working on building something like this into the source code of the ecu. Care to help out?
The ECU has plenty of spare space and knows all the values like load, temp, rpm, tps etc - you then just need to make something that interfaces the ECU to drive a pump/solenoid.
If you create some form of flow chart or psuedo code for the program, it's quite easy to write it into the ECU's source code.
- Location
- NSW
- First Name
- Steve
- Drive
- 2010 nt did pajero tow car / 2000 6spd gc8 wrx tarmac rally car / 2000 Manual Subaru Outback 2.5 just a car
My 2 cents....
I'm thinking in terms of not adding any sensors to keep it simple.... It'd only need to come on based on airflow in hz or whatever scale, airflow is proportional enough to power so.... If you wanted to you could add a couple of different thresholds based on air temp I guess. I'd also put a delay in, ie it needs to exceed a threshold for 2 secs or something, this could also be 150 ignition pulses or something if you wanted, doesn't have to be time based if that's too hard for code.
Eg if air temp <15, do nothing,
if air temp<30, enable spray beyond 2000Hz (arbitrary value),
if air temp <45, enable spray beyond 1200Hz (arbitrary value),
If air temp = or >45 enable spray beyond 1000hz (arbitrary value)
Plus you could have a float switch in the tank to disable the the output and if you did this as an input to the ecu you could also switch maps to a different BDEL table to reduce sustained boost levels (so it still allows spikes but backs off after), Kenneths switched map code that's being debuugged now could do this bit already.
That'd be simple and complicated enough for most people and means hardly any wiring is needed, 1 wire out of the ecu to drive the pump relay and another wire earthed through a float switch to the ECU. You'd run water injection with the same code if you wanted.
I'm thinking in terms of not adding any sensors to keep it simple.... It'd only need to come on based on airflow in hz or whatever scale, airflow is proportional enough to power so.... If you wanted to you could add a couple of different thresholds based on air temp I guess. I'd also put a delay in, ie it needs to exceed a threshold for 2 secs or something, this could also be 150 ignition pulses or something if you wanted, doesn't have to be time based if that's too hard for code.
Eg if air temp <15, do nothing,
if air temp<30, enable spray beyond 2000Hz (arbitrary value),
if air temp <45, enable spray beyond 1200Hz (arbitrary value),
If air temp = or >45 enable spray beyond 1000hz (arbitrary value)
Plus you could have a float switch in the tank to disable the the output and if you did this as an input to the ecu you could also switch maps to a different BDEL table to reduce sustained boost levels (so it still allows spikes but backs off after), Kenneths switched map code that's being debuugged now could do this bit already.
That'd be simple and complicated enough for most people and means hardly any wiring is needed, 1 wire out of the ecu to drive the pump relay and another wire earthed through a float switch to the ECU. You'd run water injection with the same code if you wanted.
- Thread starter
- #26
Bill and Steve - Thanks for the input.
Bill: I am happy to help out in whatever way!
Steve: Air temp of what? Ambient air or the actual air temp entering the throttle body after the intercooler? I am assuming the latter but where would this be measured from? Is there a sensor for this already?
I like the idea of the simplicity but I still don't think it's enough. This wouldn't measure intercooler temp (though the air temp after is directly related) or even if you are on boost or not.
The idea of doing it ECU independent was so it could be fitted to other cars, not just Legnums/Galants which have had an ECU tune. This would restrict the number of people who might use it quite a bit and you would need an ECU tune to use it which means it would be a fairly costly exercise in the end and would mean no one could do a DIY install.
The digital temp sensor in the intercooler is very easy, it's just a little TO-92 transistor shaped device with 3 pins (PWR, GND, OUTPUT). Any one could install this.
The injector signal is good in that from the duty cycle I can get torque and the frequency gives me rpm. This is going to be the more difficult one (potentially) as I don't know if the signal from the ECU is 5V or 12V. I am hoping it's 5 then it becomes very easy
The float switch in the water is a good idea and easy to implement, the hard bit would be finding a suitable switch!
I would implement a 4x20 LCD as well, so all this data would be available for monitoring. Duty cycle, rpm, intercooler temp and water level (if I can find one with an output). It could be stashed in the glove box, ash tray etc and the main unit with the micro behind the dash somewhere. or if people don't think that having a separate LCD is that useful, I would just have it in the main box.
Does anyone have a pinout of the ECU they can send me so I can do some measuring of voltages etc?
Cheers
Pete
Bill: I am happy to help out in whatever way!
Steve: Air temp of what? Ambient air or the actual air temp entering the throttle body after the intercooler? I am assuming the latter but where would this be measured from? Is there a sensor for this already?
I like the idea of the simplicity but I still don't think it's enough. This wouldn't measure intercooler temp (though the air temp after is directly related) or even if you are on boost or not.
The idea of doing it ECU independent was so it could be fitted to other cars, not just Legnums/Galants which have had an ECU tune. This would restrict the number of people who might use it quite a bit and you would need an ECU tune to use it which means it would be a fairly costly exercise in the end and would mean no one could do a DIY install.
The digital temp sensor in the intercooler is very easy, it's just a little TO-92 transistor shaped device with 3 pins (PWR, GND, OUTPUT). Any one could install this.
The injector signal is good in that from the duty cycle I can get torque and the frequency gives me rpm. This is going to be the more difficult one (potentially) as I don't know if the signal from the ECU is 5V or 12V. I am hoping it's 5 then it becomes very easy
The float switch in the water is a good idea and easy to implement, the hard bit would be finding a suitable switch!
I would implement a 4x20 LCD as well, so all this data would be available for monitoring. Duty cycle, rpm, intercooler temp and water level (if I can find one with an output). It could be stashed in the glove box, ash tray etc and the main unit with the micro behind the dash somewhere. or if people don't think that having a separate LCD is that useful, I would just have it in the main box.
Does anyone have a pinout of the ECU they can send me so I can do some measuring of voltages etc?
Cheers
Pete
- Thread starter
- #27
Did some more reading... The injectors are constant 12V with a switched GND. Only problem is they have an inductive induced spike of 50-90V when they turn off.
So I might have to get at the ECU to find where the control circuitry for this is and pick off the lower voltage side of it i.e. the control transistor that is switching the GND on and off.
So I might have to get at the ECU to find where the control circuitry for this is and pick off the lower voltage side of it i.e. the control transistor that is switching the GND on and off.
- Thread starter
- #28
Ok you both are on the right track it seems!
Rang my auto electrician friend and the airflow output is as you described, a direct reading of the load. Very easy to interface to and read. So I wouldn't get rpm but that isn't really necessary for what I want to do.
Might start getting a basic circuit together to read the air flow frequency output and temperature sensor.
Rang my auto electrician friend and the airflow output is as you described, a direct reading of the load. Very easy to interface to and read. So I wouldn't get rpm but that isn't really necessary for what I want to do.
Might start getting a basic circuit together to read the air flow frequency output and temperature sensor.
- Location
- SA
- First Name
- Bill
- Drive
- 2000 Galant Type-V
1997 MK Triton GLS [6G74 conversion]
2019 i30 N-Line
only problem with the karmen vortex is the reset signal... at a particular RPM, etc it sends a reset signal to the sensor... i'm not 100% what it's for yet, but i know it has a bearing on what it does with the data from the sensor.
on the other hand, if you want to shortcut that all, you could interface a PIC or Amtel (or whatever processor your gonna use) and query everything via MUT. Most PIC and Atmels have a UART - you just need a circuit that can drive the K-line (it's bi directional). if you want to take this path, i can help you out with all the info you need.
PS. Can you help me out with my cruise circuit?
on the other hand, if you want to shortcut that all, you could interface a PIC or Amtel (or whatever processor your gonna use) and query everything via MUT. Most PIC and Atmels have a UART - you just need a circuit that can drive the K-line (it's bi directional). if you want to take this path, i can help you out with all the info you need.
PS. Can you help me out with my cruise circuit?
- Thread starter
- #30
So the airflow sensor sends a reset signal? That could be fairly easily ignored in software.
I will be using Atmel, not a huge fan of PICs or MPLAB!
I assume there is some communication protocol to follow with MUT? What sort of data could I hope to get from that? (showing my ignorance here) This would also add a level of complexity in the install though... Just tapping into the airflow wire would be easier...
For sure I can help you with the circuit. Anything in particular?
I will be using Atmel, not a huge fan of PICs or MPLAB!
I assume there is some communication protocol to follow with MUT? What sort of data could I hope to get from that? (showing my ignorance here
) This would also add a level of complexity in the install though... Just tapping into the airflow wire would be easier...For sure I can help you with the circuit. Anything in particular?
Macca
Showing some Leg.
I like where this is going. I would be keen for a stand alone DIY system.
- Location
- NSW
- First Name
- Steve
- Drive
- 2010 nt did pajero tow car / 2000 6spd gc8 wrx tarmac rally car / 2000 Manual Subaru Outback 2.5 just a car
Do both, develop it in code for tuned cars and develop a standalone.... Sounds to me like Poita is more the standalone guy and BCX is more the ECU guy
Power and intake temp won't tell you intercooler temps but it will do the same thing every time anyway (or near enough, please lets not get into arguments about this I know turbo sizes/efficiency and tunes can effect all that but it can be worked out with another sensor logging) so with a bit of monitoring we could work out when to run it. The air temp the ECU sees is at the MAF.
Power and intake temp won't tell you intercooler temps but it will do the same thing every time anyway (or near enough, please lets not get into arguments about this I know turbo sizes/efficiency and tunes can effect all that but it can be worked out with another sensor logging) so with a bit of monitoring we could work out when to run it. The air temp the ECU sees is at the MAF.
Kenneth
1 AYC Bar
if someone can tell me a ECU output which can be switched (internal address), it would be very easy to switch the output using the same method used in the map switching (up to 8 internal variables values + input switch matching). Since the system is all in place, would probably take about an hour to code up.
mookers
puri puri
- Location
- Frankston, Melbourne, VIC
- First Name
- Derek
- Drive
- CL9 Accord Euro Lux, GE Jazz VTi, Evil Supervillain Chair, Homemade Portable Square Drumkit
That's our Steve... always pushing to unite all ECU knowledge into one glorious tune... One Tune to Rule Them All?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ecumenical
- Location
- NSW
- First Name
- Steve
- Drive
- 2010 nt did pajero tow car / 2000 6spd gc8 wrx tarmac rally car / 2000 Manual Subaru Outback 2.5 just a car
How the F$*k did my touchscreen predict I wanted the word Ecumenical??? I didn't even know the word existed! You'd think it would learn I write ECU farily often by now....
One tune to rule them all and in the darkness bind them :lol:
Anyway pin D20 is what you want White wire with a blue stripe. (Connector D is the smaller of the two outside connectors - 11 pins wide and it should be on the bottom row, 3rd from the outside)
- Thread starter
- #40
Thanks Steve.
And where can I find this 'ecumenical' pinout diagram??? I did a quick search and couldn't find anything.
Edit: Found it!
Edit2: Now where the hell is the ECU located? I will try to do some logging this weekend if I can get the time.
And where can I find this 'ecumenical' pinout diagram??? I did a quick search and couldn't find anything.
Edit: Found it!
Edit2: Now where the hell is the ECU located? I will try to do some logging this weekend if I can get the time.
