Lean running Legnum on the dyno

TME_Steve

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2010 nt did pajero tow car / 2000 6spd gc8 wrx tarmac rally car / 2000 Manual Subaru Outback 2.5 just a car
That autobahn cooler is tiny. Factory is possibly more effective. Figured those turbos were stock as well.... now logs.
 

Kaldek

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Ed
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2000 Legnum VR4 Manual, Ford Territory family runabout, BMW K1300R.
How's this load for you @jungle ? Peak of 196 before I backed off in 4th because, well, I like my license.

196 load 4th gear.png


AFRs have been retuned by @TME_Steve . Hitting 11.4 AFR as defined in the new tune at that load/rpm.
 

jungle

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Its hard to tell without seeing RPM values. I'd expect to see the load stay reasonably constant on boost. If its tuned for 14psi, i'd expect to see it around 170-180% from 2700 to 5200-5500 then taper off to maybe 125 by 7000rpm as the turbo/cam combo runs out of puff.

But that being said, if Steve's tuned it, it'll be fine.(y)
 

TME_Steve

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Well i tuned it when it was very different to now, this is just fixing up what was stuffed before, going to bed some logging etc. @Kaldek i don't know if you're wideband is perfect so I'd leave it at 11.4 for now. Usually I'd go a bit leaner than that but 11.4 is ok and id rather be a touch rich than a touch lean.

Send me some logs when you can. Same parameters as last time.

All of this goes to show the importance of the fuel pump and the fitting kit.
 

Kaldek

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2000 Legnum VR4 Manual, Ford Territory family runabout, BMW K1300R.
Will be interesting to compare once the HDi GT2 intercooler is fitted.

I love data and I just wish that I already had the data I want; charge air temperature pre and post intercooler in particular. So much stuff gets thrown around on Internet forums about how X is better than Y but where's the evidence that shows the difference? Unless someone can provide recorded figures it's all highly subjective. I'm sure a bunch of guys on here are laughing about how many gauges I've got fitted to my car, but measurement is the only way to get information that leads to good decisions.
 

Kaldek

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2000 Legnum VR4 Manual, Ford Territory family runabout, BMW K1300R.
Well i tuned it when it was very different to now, this is just fixing up what was stuffed before, going to bed some logging etc. @Kaldek i don't know if you're wideband is perfect so I'd leave it at 11.4 for now. Usually I'd go a bit leaner than that but 11.4 is ok and id rather be a touch rich than a touch lean.

Send me some logs when you can. Same parameters as last time.

All of this goes to show the importance of the fuel pump and the fitting kit.
Logs are sent. I used Email due to probs with uploading zip files. Got a little knock but before tuning it out I might wait until my GT2 intercooler is fitted. Steve you are on fire today! Guys, he's already sent me another map with some of the timing pulled back.

But you're dead right about the fuel pump. Once I had that issue of the car running lean I had to go completely over the top to ensure it was never a factor again. Aside from the pump we fitted on that tune day I fitted a 3SX fuel loop AND a fuel pressure gauge on the end of the rail. I've never collected that data with a remote sensor into the cabin though, but I think with the wideband data we have now it's no longer necessary.
 

TME_Steve

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Replied to your email. didn't look at boost but it's got a bit of knock. New map sent in the email.

The GT2 is a good unit,a bar and plate can work just as well but they're just soooooo heavy.

And it's not just temp difference that matters with the IC, but also pressure drop, that's why the shorter ones are no good, too much PD.
 

Kaldek

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2000 Legnum VR4 Manual, Ford Territory family runabout, BMW K1300R.
Replied to your email. didn't look at boost but it's got a bit of knock. New map sent in the email.

The GT2 is a good unit,a bar and plate can work just as well but they're just soooooo heavy.

And it's not just temp difference that matters with the IC, but also pressure drop, that's why the shorter ones are no good, too much PD.
Thanks, will load that map later and test. Your time and effort is appreciated beyond measure.
 

jungle

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Logs are sent. I used Email due to probs with uploading zip files. Got a little knock but before tuning it out I might wait until my GT2 intercooler is fitted. Steve you are on fire today! Guys, he's already sent me another map with some of the timing pulled back.

But you're dead right about the fuel pump. Once I had that issue of the car running lean I had to go completely over the top to ensure it was never a factor again. Aside from the pump we fitted on that tune day I fitted a 3SX fuel loop AND a fuel pressure gauge on the end of the rail. I've never collected that data with a remote sensor into the cabin though, but I think with the wideband data we have now it's no longer necessary.
That's not over the top, just what's needed to suit the car at that time.
Wait till you start doing track days and racing, you can never have enough data.(y)
 

Kaldek

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2000 Legnum VR4 Manual, Ford Territory family runabout, BMW K1300R.
Updated map with slightly retarded timing has been installed. I'll go test later - right now it's 4pm and school pickup time which around here is a disaster.
 

Kaldek

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2000 Legnum VR4 Manual, Ford Territory family runabout, BMW K1300R.
Tested, still getting some knock when in 4th gear and as load gets over 150 in that gear. I get no knock in 3rd. Fuel mixtures are reported as matching the map.

I will do some runs with det cans installed so I can listen to what the ECU reckons is going on. Also, I will revisit this in detail once my HDi GT2 intercooler is fitted.
 

Kaldek

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Ed
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2000 Legnum VR4 Manual, Ford Territory family runabout, BMW K1300R.

Kaldek

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Melbourne
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Ed
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2000 Legnum VR4 Manual, Ford Territory family runabout, BMW K1300R.
Haven't posted for a few days but I discovered the boost hose to my BOV was completely kinked. I fixed that up and it's turned the car back into a weapon - HUGE difference in boost and power. I really can't say how long that hose has been like that - it would have been holding the BOV open all the time and messing with boost badly. I can say though that the blow off sounds for many months haven't felt right so for all I know it could have been close to a year with crap boost. The sound was more of a WOWWW than a sharp high pitched TEESH sound. With the car now making peak boost where it's supposed to, the expected sound is back.

I can only blame myself for not discovering this, but I'm a noob and I have an absolute ton to learn. And, I also now have to deal with some fairly serious knock. Peak of 13 seen today at 185 load so I've taken my latest TME map and wound back the timing by 2 degrees where the knock/load correlate. I've asked @TME_Steve for his view and will take his advice or updated ignition map, but in case he's too busy this week I'll load this alteration I've made. I'd prefer a slightly naff but safe tune than knock because I'm driving to Steve's workshop in Sydney next Saturday with my spare motor for its rebuild. Breaking down in a Legnum with a spare motor in the boot would just look super bad.
 

jungle

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If you know what you're doing take more ignition out and slowly work it back up.
But you'll need to change the rest of the map around it. Do just keep it limited to around 5psi with your right foot until Steve can change it
 

Kaldek

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Ed
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2000 Legnum VR4 Manual, Ford Territory family runabout, BMW K1300R.
If you know what you're doing take more ignition out and slowly work it back up.
But you'll need to change the rest of the map around it. Do just keep it limited to around 5psi with your right foot until Steve can change it
Yeah I modified the map around it. I looked at my original TME tune vs. the mods Steve made for me last week, and I analysed what he modified and where he did it in the ignition table. I then made a list of all the rpm/load positions where knock was occurring, compared those against the approach that Steve looks to have used, and followed that to reduce timing in those cells and in the cells next to them for transition and inter-cell interpolation.

This map has now been loaded into the car and I'll just take it easy. I don't see that I should get my knickers in a twist about it - I mean, the knock detection function is there for a reason and it works. Hell, what if I get a bad batch of fuel in it? Or can only find 91 RON one day? The system is designed to save the motor, and so while I won't go and abuse the crap out of it, I won't go full paranoid.
 
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