Dr_Josh001
Leaving Skid Marks
Agreed. Proof the stock ecu is capable; there's a guy in Adelaide who's tuned an evo5 to over 350kw on the stock ecu.
Overhauling an engine.. few questions..
- Thread starter naughtika
- Start date
Agreed. Proof the stock ecu is capable; there's a guy in Adelaide who's tuned an evo5 to over 350kw on the stock ecu.
Christian to make 350+kw thats ALOT of power, do you have the comp and exhaust wheel specs for the TDO4? or the power map? My point is where do you want the power @3500rpm or @5900rpm. That one thing you have to look at. To make big power you will loose bottom end and have lag thats why I said by moding the internals you play around with the turbos characteristics
Here man check this site out http://site.scrollproducts.com/en/hybrids/td04-mitsubishi
Here man check this site out http://site.scrollproducts.com/en/hybrids/td04-mitsubishi
naughtika
OzVR4 Stalker
- Thread starter
- #23
sorry, I've just re-read what I've said in the beginning.. and seems like I wasn't being clear..
I want my my engine to put out between 300kw & 350kw at the wheels, while using TD04, I would assume that low down torque wouldn't be close to the stock TD03's that we have, so spool up time should be similar, if not maybe an extra 500rpms later...
I can't find any power/efficiency map for the turbo that I'm after but I'm hoping that around 4k rpm it can provide 17psi and keep rising up to 24psi by 7-8k rpm..
Peak power.. I would like it to be around 5k rpms and hold til the redline..
I want my my engine to put out between 300kw & 350kw at the wheels, while using TD04, I would assume that low down torque wouldn't be close to the stock TD03's that we have, so spool up time should be similar, if not maybe an extra 500rpms later...
I can't find any power/efficiency map for the turbo that I'm after but I'm hoping that around 4k rpm it can provide 17psi and keep rising up to 24psi by 7-8k rpm..
Peak power.. I would like it to be around 5k rpms and hold til the redline..
Kenneth
1 AYC Bar
350kW at 5000 RPM is going to require ~667Nm of torque.
A quick guesstimate is that you are going to require 20-25psi of boost (pressure ratio of ~2.3 to 2.7) assuming you get the engine to flow a bit more freely than it standard guise.
I would suggest you drop your boost requirements and stick to engine power as the engine power you want is going to dictate your boost curve.
Sounds fairly doable to me. You will have to map out some turbos to find one that meets your requirements though. I would suggest that you do that first to make sure you can get the approximate pressure ratios you require at the RPM points.
Keep in mind that 667Nm is quite a bit of torque. In contrast, if you had this torque at 7000RPM you would have nearly 500kW. (660hp)
This means that it is almost certain that you will break something in the drive train in short order.
(in a hurry, excuse me if some of my math is pretty rough...
)
A quick guesstimate is that you are going to require 20-25psi of boost (pressure ratio of ~2.3 to 2.7) assuming you get the engine to flow a bit more freely than it standard guise.
I would suggest you drop your boost requirements and stick to engine power as the engine power you want is going to dictate your boost curve.
Sounds fairly doable to me. You will have to map out some turbos to find one that meets your requirements though. I would suggest that you do that first to make sure you can get the approximate pressure ratios you require at the RPM points.
Keep in mind that 667Nm is quite a bit of torque. In contrast, if you had this torque at 7000RPM you would have nearly 500kW. (660hp)
This means that it is almost certain that you will break something in the drive train in short order.
(in a hurry, excuse me if some of my math is pretty rough...
)
Kenneth
1 AYC Bar
I would also think you will need external wastegates to ensure you can move enough exhaust past the turbo. This will allow you to use a smaller turbine AR without choking the exhaust flow required to maintain the power levels you want.
Actually Josh, Steve's Evo 6 is putting out in excess of 400awkw on the stock ecu down here......
- Location
- NSW
- First Name
- Steve
- Drive
- 2010 nt did pajero tow car / 2000 6spd gc8 wrx tarmac rally car / 2000 Manual Subaru Outback 2.5 just a car
350KWATW doesn't sound that unreasonable to me, you just need to think it through and be very aware of drivetrain fragility.
Also have you considered compound turbo's, another member on here was looking at that option and I think it's valid if you can make it fit. It helps you with the width of the engine (radiator to firewall) but it would be a bitch the other way, still I think it has merit for consideration. You need to look very closely at compressor maps and consider how you are using the car. If it were me, i would be tracking a car with that much power pretty regularly and in that case it needs to be strong as hell. Think about how many WOT runs you do to redline on a circuit and if it's a high speed circuit OK it's cooled but it takes a long time sitting at high load in 4th or 5th to wind it out. I'd guess you are going to get a peak torque of around the 700 mark and 670Nm at 6500RPM, Kenneths numbers are at the wheels, I'm talking at the engine. That's a lot of torque for diffs and driveshafts to deal with so think carefully about them, especially if you are going to slide it a bit (who wouldn't?).
And Kenneths and my examples show some other basic principles that shouldn't be ignored, at 5000RPM you need 670Nm at the wheels to make 350kW, at 6500RPM you need 670Nm at the engine, the second is a lot easier on the drivetrain but it's a much peakier engine. How do you want it to drive? Lots to consider before diving in.
Should go quite well though Be nice to drag off a Gallardo in a wagon....
Also have you considered compound turbo's, another member on here was looking at that option and I think it's valid if you can make it fit. It helps you with the width of the engine (radiator to firewall) but it would be a bitch the other way, still I think it has merit for consideration. You need to look very closely at compressor maps and consider how you are using the car. If it were me, i would be tracking a car with that much power pretty regularly and in that case it needs to be strong as hell. Think about how many WOT runs you do to redline on a circuit and if it's a high speed circuit OK it's cooled but it takes a long time sitting at high load in 4th or 5th to wind it out. I'd guess you are going to get a peak torque of around the 700 mark and 670Nm at 6500RPM, Kenneths numbers are at the wheels, I'm talking at the engine. That's a lot of torque for diffs and driveshafts to deal with so think carefully about them, especially if you are going to slide it a bit (who wouldn't?).
And Kenneths and my examples show some other basic principles that shouldn't be ignored, at 5000RPM you need 670Nm at the wheels to make 350kW, at 6500RPM you need 670Nm at the engine, the second is a lot easier on the drivetrain but it's a much peakier engine. How do you want it to drive? Lots to consider before diving in.
Should go quite well though
Be nice to drag off a Gallardo in a wagon....
Kenneth
1 AYC Bar
Steve, my figures were supposed to be at the engine I should lookup how to go straight from kW to Nm, I pretty much tried to go around about using hp and lb-ft and converting back to Nm.
Either way, it is still a lot of torque.
I should lookup how to go straight from kW to Nm, I pretty much tried to go around about using hp and lb-ft and converting back to Nm. Either way, it is still a lot of torque.
- Location
- NSW
- First Name
- Steve
- Drive
- 2010 nt did pajero tow car / 2000 6spd gc8 wrx tarmac rally car / 2000 Manual Subaru Outback 2.5 just a car
Well for 350kW at the engine you're correct
Power = Torque x RPM but RPM needs to be converted from RPM to radians/sec then divide the lot by 1000 to get from watts to kilowatts
So Power(kW) = torque(Nm) x 2 x pi x RPM / 60 / 1000
(the 2 x pi is because there a 2 x pi radians per revolution)
Power = Torque x RPM but RPM needs to be converted from RPM to radians/sec then divide the lot by 1000 to get from watts to kilowatts
So Power(kW) = torque(Nm) x 2 x pi x RPM / 60 / 1000
(the 2 x pi is because there a 2 x pi radians per revolution)
Where is the wanted power figure plucked from? Have you been for a ride in a Leggy/Galant/EVO/GTR/something with that much power? I drove one last night with 373awkW. Let me tell you that is a lot of power and not something that will be achieved easily or cheaply particulalry in an east west engine.
Ask Jet150 what he's spent so far.
I'd be trolling the UK forum and asking the questions there.
Ask Jet150 what he's spent so far.
I'd be trolling the UK forum and asking the questions there.
naughtika
OzVR4 Stalker
- Thread starter
- #31
figures is what I want to achieve, I believe this is easily done on the 6A13 as long as the supporting mod's done right.. I know I haven't written down specifically what I'm getting as Im still in the learning mode, so inputs from you guys are taken seriously..
been speaking to Rob
and he's been helpful with things.. I dont see this project finishing any time soon, but I will definitely start stocking parts.. Ill clear one of my dad's shelves so I can put the parts there nicely..also as much as possible I wanna keep it in ozvr4, i've seen the cvr4 stuff and most of them have only done the turbo upgrades, and was done on a budget, with mine, I'm not gonna count if how much money I put in this money pit, I'll save up for the needed part and store it.. and when I have all the parts.. it'll all go in.. in 1 go..
I'm also talking to my dad's friend, he used to own a workshop at slacks creek, he used to build v8's and other stuff... now that he's semi-retired he mostly does his car stuff at his home..
Dr_Josh001
Leaving Skid Marks
Yeah that's the one, I knew it was up there with power. Even more incentive to keep the stock ecu.
Well Christ that's what I've been doing, I'm really lucky in that one of the engineers at my work was one of the head engineers for one of the main v8 guys. I'm not looking to make stupid power but I want a daily that will smash most ppl. I have lots sort of being organised but I'm a ninja. Also I don't want to talk to much poop until I have the proof that it can/has be done. To be cont....
I understand completely the want to have a powerful car, id suggest you go for a ride in a few before setting a power figure, as you may be surprised at what a lower (under 400hp) output goes like.
Anything is achievable with big enough pockets
By no means am i trying to talk you out of it either, just trying to add some realism to your wish.
Anything is achievable with big enough pockets
By no means am i trying to talk you out of it either, just trying to add some realism to your wish.
Fully
Leaving Skid Marks
This is how I have being doing mine, broken down into the following sections.
Is build the motor.... Cost of about $6000-$8000 NZD(6A13) - that's everthing
including machine work balancing and what have you. (price's will change)
After that - (assuming you have all the intake, downpipe, exhaust, spark plugs, spark plug wires, boost controller, Gauges, BOV - already ie:basics)
You'll have to do the fuel System:
Injectors
Fuel Rail
Fuel Regulator
Intake Manifold
Fuel Pump
Some sort of Fuel Managment (link, motec, haltech, SAFC, etc)
Then it's time for the turbo set up:
turbo
Waiste Gate
FMIC
I/C piping
Stopping Power:
brake upgrades
Pads
SS Lines all around.
Handling:
Polyurothane all around
Sway Bars
Strut Bars
Suspension
Rims/Tires
Make realistic goals, then improve those goals once you complete them.
Don't think you will build a 10 second car, because you wont. Until you break stuff this takes years of blood sweat and tears with a few scrapted knuckles to get here.
Its easy to get a fast 12 second car, but bloody hard to shave more time off this.
Is build the motor.... Cost of about $6000-$8000 NZD(6A13) - that's everthing
including machine work balancing and what have you. (price's will change)
After that - (assuming you have all the intake, downpipe, exhaust, spark plugs, spark plug wires, boost controller, Gauges, BOV - already ie:basics)
You'll have to do the fuel System:
Injectors
Fuel Rail
Fuel Regulator
Intake Manifold
Fuel Pump
Some sort of Fuel Managment (link, motec, haltech, SAFC, etc)
Then it's time for the turbo set up:
turbo
Waiste Gate
FMIC
I/C piping
Stopping Power:
brake upgrades
Pads
SS Lines all around.
Handling:
Polyurothane all around
Sway Bars
Strut Bars
Suspension
Rims/Tires
Make realistic goals, then improve those goals once you complete them.
Don't think you will build a 10 second car, because you wont. Until you break stuff this takes years of blood sweat and tears with a few scrapted knuckles to get here.
Its easy to get a fast 12 second car, but bloody hard to shave more time off this.
