Hi , can someone advise where I could go in north Brisbane for a proper tune up on a dead stock 2002 Galant. Car runs real well, but we think its a bit heavy on fuel - last tank was 50 l for 400 Kms. Would have thought with wife using it to dawdle to work and back it should give us closer to 10 km / l. Just replaced o2 sensor, and it improved from 7 km/l to 8 km/l. What should I be looking for in a place to use - that they have a certain machine for checking for fault codes, or something that analyses existing tune of ECU, or is it all automatically done by car? Thanks
Tuning stock car - Brisbane?
- Thread starter Kay
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What do you mean by 'tune up', you mean an ECU flash right?
In which case you probably need to wait until @TME_Steve comes back to Brisbane for a tuning day, isn't really anyone brissy I'd trust unless you want to be their guinea pig and pay big bucks for the privilege.
Other than that, there is a guide on here on how you can check your error codes yourself if you suspect an issue.
Might be worth disconnecting the battery for a while so the ECU can reset and learn the new O2 sensor even better, but it could make it run like a dog for about 200kms while it re learns, especially if it's an auto.
In which case you probably need to wait until @TME_Steve comes back to Brisbane for a tuning day, isn't really anyone brissy I'd trust unless you want to be their guinea pig and pay big bucks for the privilege.
Other than that, there is a guide on here on how you can check your error codes yourself if you suspect an issue.
Might be worth disconnecting the battery for a while so the ECU can reset and learn the new O2 sensor even better, but it could make it run like a dog for about 200kms while it re learns, especially if it's an auto.
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- #3
Thanks for that quick response; I've been reading through the threads, and there seem to be differing views on how long the ecu takes to adjust to changed fuel, detonation, etc. Some say it's fairly quick, others say quite long, so yeah, a bit confusing. You're right, I don't want to be a guinea pig unless someone knows exactly what they're doing. I've read about Steve's tuning, but I was under impression one pays a fixed price like $900, but that's a bit steep for a stock tune - we're not looking extra Kw, just want the car to run as per stock tune. Would that be something he does? I will see if I can test for any codes using the paper clip method? How much are the Evo scan things mentioned? or a MUTT tester? or is the paper clip just as good?
Cheers
Cheers
No one is really answering your question, because most won't know.
The car has 8 maps, 2 hi octane 2 low octane ignition. The cars run lean from factory around 3000-4300 rpm, guess it may be linked to Japanese emission testing, however, scarily most stock cars will knock in that rpm range, even with 98 octane.
They don't really learn but react to the conditions the ECU is sensing. If you continually feed it shit fuel, i.e. 91 or 95 it will, depending on the severity of detonation, it will retard the timing and and interpolate between the lo and hi octane maps. It keeps track of how often this happens and applies a weighting to it. This weighting will directly reflect which maps it uses. There are also 2 hi and 2 low octane fuel maps, same weighting applies here too.
If the shit fuel conditions stop occurring, after a period of time the ECU will slowly try and get itself back to the hi octane maps. If it detects knock, it will pull timing and add fuel as a defence. Keep in mind, this is reactionary, it won't protect the engine if you get a sudden big knock.
Now, that said, there is scope to improve the stock map. You mentioned you want it to run as per the stock map. Well, it is!! The stock map is very conservative with timing under vacuum. There is plenty of room to improve it. If you are going to the expense of getting it tuned via a ECU flash, then you should consider improving it under boost as well. Plenty to be gained here too.
If you want better fuel economy then you may as well get the other benefits under boost too! In short, you'll pay the same for a tune regardless.
Hope that helps.
- Thread starter
- #7
Very helpful, thanks. I guess what I'm trying to do is get the car to the point where I know it's running perfectly as per factory, then start with some simple performance tweak pathways that I'm sure many here have done in differing ways. I guess another thing holding us back from too much performance enhancement is the uncertainty we have over the wave spring washer, and whether or not ours has the weak one or strong one. Interesting your comments re detonation on 98 ron fuel - not doubting you, but what makes you say that scarily, many stock cars are detonating on 98? not much choice for us after 98 , is there. The other thing that puzzles me, is the Japanese translation for the fuel requirement is "premium unleaded fuel" which is essentially 95 ron, not upulp (ultra premium unleaded fuel), so surely it should be happy with 98?
Cheers , best answer I've had, which helps me understand a bit better what I would consider spending in terms of your other answer re a tune. Would you be changing the factory settings on mine, with your definitions, or just tweaking my ecu original settings. and what mild performance tweaks would you consider as part of this tune up / service? Sorry, being an ex aircraft mechanic from the 70's and 80's, I just want to understand and be sold a bit more on what I might be getting in to.
Thanks again for the great info and taking time out to answer - I think I also understand now why I wasn't getting responses, as you say, this seems to be getting into the "black art" part of the car, not just changing brake shoes or putting another intercooler on, which is all well understood stuff.
Cheers , best answer I've had, which helps me understand a bit better what I would consider spending in terms of your other answer re a tune. Would you be changing the factory settings on mine, with your definitions, or just tweaking my ecu original settings. and what mild performance tweaks would you consider as part of this tune up / service? Sorry, being an ex aircraft mechanic from the 70's and 80's, I just want to understand and be sold a bit more on what I might be getting in to.
Thanks again for the great info and taking time out to answer - I think I also understand now why I wasn't getting responses, as you say, this seems to be getting into the "black art" part of the car, not just changing brake shoes or putting another intercooler on, which is all well understood stuff.
I would have a chat to @TME_Steve
98 is the fuel to use.
Why do they detonate from factory? Some will some won't but they run lean with aggressive timing in that load area. Again, don't know for certain, but i would suggest an emissions target to reach for hydrocarbons CH and or carbon monoxide CO. As the A/F ratio approaches 14.7 from rich values, CO and CH reduce until around 16-17.0 when CH increases dramatically. Above 4000rpm the A/F ratio go stupidly rich as most turbo factory cars do to protect the engine for the worst case of conditions the engineers think it may encounter. i.e. bad servicing crap fuel hot climate.
Unless you tune them, you wouldn't know its detonating or any of the things i said i my reply. Small amounts of knock are inevitable, and over time they will cause fatigue on the pistons and rind lands until finally it'll fail one day. It doesn't necessarily mean the engine will destroy itself, you could just end up with excessive amounts of blow by oil usage lack of power water use etc etc . none are immediately terminal but will lead to an engine rebuild or replacement.
I understand your background and questions, I'm a former RAAF pilot
Why do they detonate from factory? Some will some won't but they run lean with aggressive timing in that load area. Again, don't know for certain, but i would suggest an emissions target to reach for hydrocarbons CH and or carbon monoxide CO. As the A/F ratio approaches 14.7 from rich values, CO and CH reduce until around 16-17.0 when CH increases dramatically. Above 4000rpm the A/F ratio go stupidly rich as most turbo factory cars do to protect the engine for the worst case of conditions the engineers think it may encounter. i.e. bad servicing crap fuel hot climate.
Unless you tune them, you wouldn't know its detonating or any of the things i said i my reply. Small amounts of knock are inevitable, and over time they will cause fatigue on the pistons and rind lands until finally it'll fail one day. It doesn't necessarily mean the engine will destroy itself, you could just end up with excessive amounts of blow by oil usage lack of power water use etc etc . none are immediately terminal but will lead to an engine rebuild or replacement.
I understand your background and questions, I'm a former RAAF pilot
- Thread starter
- #10
There you go, you know my language, so you didn't have to hold back on the techno babble...... I'm from overseas, and used to work on Mirage 3 's Mirage F1's, Aeorspatiale Puma, Alouette, Macchi Mb326, Canberra, Buccaneer.
I had a turbo bike, and lost my engine to detonation, so have seen how quickly it collapses the ring lands, and on 1 piston, punched a hole right through the middle. It had a diaphragm for automatic advance retard, and the rubber ruptured , so was unable to retard timing on boost; all I heard was a rapid rattling sound, and was then suddenly on 3 out of cylinders......it makes sens what you say, in terms of engineers giving max grunt in the power band, and then going rich as a conservative measure. Thanks for your number, hopefully give you a call in the not too far distant future - pity you're not a bit closer, otherwise I would have just popped over.....
Thanks Simon
I had a turbo bike, and lost my engine to detonation, so have seen how quickly it collapses the ring lands, and on 1 piston, punched a hole right through the middle. It had a diaphragm for automatic advance retard, and the rubber ruptured , so was unable to retard timing on boost; all I heard was a rapid rattling sound, and was then suddenly on 3 out of cylinders......it makes sens what you say, in terms of engineers giving max grunt in the power band, and then going rich as a conservative measure. Thanks for your number, hopefully give you a call in the not too far distant future - pity you're not a bit closer, otherwise I would have just popped over.....
Thanks Simon
Bugger about the bike, if you can hear the knock then its bad!! I use some home made det cans to backup the ECU knock sensor.
Ah righto, i used to fly PC9, Caribou & C17, instructed on all of them.
What suburb of Brissy are you?
Ah righto, i used to fly PC9, Caribou & C17, instructed on all of them.
What suburb of Brissy are you?
- Thread starter
- #13
Wow, that's more like it! so clearly achievable - thanks!
- Thread starter
- #14
Ferny Grove - cheers
naughtika
OzVR4 Stalker
- Thread starter
- #16
Pearl white...
naughtika
OzVR4 Stalker
may have seen yours around.. I'm only at Keperra.
