simon, i have a feeling spetz is looking to build a 6a12mivec stroker. so a 2.5L mivec NA motor for his lancer.
i assume it'll be a "hi-comp, large duration cam" type motor.
i assume it'll be a "hi-comp, large duration cam" type motor.
6A13TT Engine rebuild
- Thread starter jungle
- Start date
Yes the motor is to remain NA. It will be a street driven car that will most likely see track time however it is not a daily driver.
I am just trying to see the cost/gain results for building such a motor. The problem with going forged rods is that it is a substantial expense and if I were to do rods I would not do a half measure, and I would put forged pistons. By now though the price is getting up there, and this is money I would rather spend on the head (head work + cams) and the intake manifold. The pistons I am not worried about, but a nice goal to have would be a high power NA motor with "OEM bottom end".
I would get the rods cryo treated, shot peened etc which I think adds a but of durability to them, and I was hoping that without the added force of the turbo setup the rods should be safe.
I am somewhat apprehensive about the build though, as it is already in a price range which is simply unjustifiable to spend, and this is on the assumption and calculation that there will be no major hiccups. On the other hand I feel a great deal of excitement about the possibility of embarking upon such a journey of building a world first engine. That being said this is a build that I would not expect to be completed in a short period (not before 2013-14) and considering such a time frame I am concerned I may simply give up or lose interest in the project, all the while losing thousands on the attempt.
I am just trying to see the cost/gain results for building such a motor. The problem with going forged rods is that it is a substantial expense and if I were to do rods I would not do a half measure, and I would put forged pistons. By now though the price is getting up there, and this is money I would rather spend on the head (head work + cams) and the intake manifold. The pistons I am not worried about, but a nice goal to have would be a high power NA motor with "OEM bottom end".
I would get the rods cryo treated, shot peened etc which I think adds a but of durability to them, and I was hoping that without the added force of the turbo setup the rods should be safe.
I am somewhat apprehensive about the build though, as it is already in a price range which is simply unjustifiable to spend, and this is on the assumption and calculation that there will be no major hiccups. On the other hand I feel a great deal of excitement about the possibility of embarking upon such a journey of building a world first engine. That being said this is a build that I would not expect to be completed in a short period (not before 2013-14) and considering such a time frame I am concerned I may simply give up or lose interest in the project, all the while losing thousands on the attempt.
Macca
Showing some Leg.
I'm sorry to anyone who actually like the guy/guys at RPW but they seem to be a bunch of douche bags that charge way too much for their products and cock people around. I wont be getting anything from them. It sounds like an interesting project you have there Spetz, if you go ahead with it keep us posted and good luck.
If I go ahead with it I am hoping you guys will be able to give me advice considering what I am aiming for is a 6A13TT bottom end considering the better conrods, nitrided crank and piston oil squirters which the NA 6A13 does not have.
I cannot say I have bad dealings with RPW, though I agree their prices do seem unjustifiably high for some of their parts
I cannot say I have bad dealings with RPW, though I agree their prices do seem unjustifiably high for some of their parts
Murph
Leaving Skid Marks
Spetz: Could be worth starting a thread in the technical section over on performanceforums.com. They have some switched on blokes on there when it comes to this sort of stuff. They should be able to give some guidance on a few of your questions.
Either way, do some reading on average piston velocity. There are a few rule of thumb limits (anything from 18 - 25 m/s depending on materials and construction of the components). From what I've read, in the majority of rod failures, it's actually the rod bolts that let go, not the rod itself. The maximum force on the rod is at TDC on the exhaust stroke, so I would suspect that the engine not being turbo charged won't allow you to rev the engine much higher.
Either way, do some reading on average piston velocity. There are a few rule of thumb limits (anything from 18 - 25 m/s depending on materials and construction of the components). From what I've read, in the majority of rod failures, it's actually the rod bolts that let go, not the rod itself. The maximum force on the rod is at TDC on the exhaust stroke, so I would suspect that the engine not being turbo charged won't allow you to rev the engine much higher.
Thanks Murph I will open an account and post there.
As far as the con rod goes, I would think that in a turbo application it would be the power stroke that would most likely damage the rod itself, and yes the exhaust stroke for the rod bolt.
I think another main issue with rods is the side to side movement, hence a good R/S ratio is necessary. The 6A13 has a 1.71 R/S ratio which is pretty good. This will also decelerate and accelerate the piston at TDC in a gentler way which will help the damage that can be caused by reaching TDC as you mentioned.
The pistons I am not worried about, as I know that 6A13TT pistons are used in 4G93 turbo applications. And there are many 4G9X pistons available in many compression ratios. Additionally the 4G93E (DOHC 1.8 NA) revs to 7,500rpm from factory, and other modified all motor 4G93s use stock pistons and rev to 8,000rpm safely. This is with a 89mm stroke, versus 80.8mm stroke of the 6A13.
As far as the con rod goes, I would think that in a turbo application it would be the power stroke that would most likely damage the rod itself, and yes the exhaust stroke for the rod bolt.
I think another main issue with rods is the side to side movement, hence a good R/S ratio is necessary. The 6A13 has a 1.71 R/S ratio which is pretty good. This will also decelerate and accelerate the piston at TDC in a gentler way which will help the damage that can be caused by reaching TDC as you mentioned.
The pistons I am not worried about, as I know that 6A13TT pistons are used in 4G93 turbo applications. And there are many 4G9X pistons available in many compression ratios. Additionally the 4G93E (DOHC 1.8 NA) revs to 7,500rpm from factory, and other modified all motor 4G93s use stock pistons and rev to 8,000rpm safely. This is with a 89mm stroke, versus 80.8mm stroke of the 6A13.
hello my name is Leonardo, I'm from Argentina, I found very interesting your post Jungle.
Some time ago I was looking for a galant with 6a13n/a engine and... finally after years of searching I got it (in my country 6a13tt engine is not have), the idea is to turn the engine 6a13n/a in 6a13tt, but using the engine block 6a13n/a... legal grounds to my country.
I wanted to consult you if you know if the engine block 6a13n/a, is the same as the engine block 6a13tt, to move the pieces of a twin turbo my n/a, you think this is possible?
regars and thanks
hola me llamo Leonardo, soy de Argentina, me parecio muy interesante tu post Jungle.
Hace tiempo que estaba buscando un galant con engine 6a13n/a y por fin despues de años de busqueda lo consegui, en mi pais no se consigue engine 6a13tt, la idea es convertir el engine 6a13n/a en 6a13tt, pero usando el engine block 6a13n/a por razones legales de mi pais.
Queria consultarte si sabes si el engine block 6a13n/a, es el mismo que el engine block 6a13tt, para trasladar las piezas de un twin turbo a mi n/a, crees que esto es posible?
saludos y gracias
Some time ago I was looking for a galant with 6a13n/a engine and... finally after years of searching I got it (in my country 6a13tt engine is not have), the idea is to turn the engine 6a13n/a in 6a13tt, but using the engine block 6a13n/a... legal grounds to my country.
I wanted to consult you if you know if the engine block 6a13n/a, is the same as the engine block 6a13tt, to move the pieces of a twin turbo my n/a, you think this is possible?
regars and thanks
hola me llamo Leonardo, soy de Argentina, me parecio muy interesante tu post Jungle.
Hace tiempo que estaba buscando un galant con engine 6a13n/a y por fin despues de años de busqueda lo consegui, en mi pais no se consigue engine 6a13tt, la idea es convertir el engine 6a13n/a en 6a13tt, pero usando el engine block 6a13n/a por razones legales de mi pais.
Queria consultarte si sabes si el engine block 6a13n/a, es el mismo que el engine block 6a13tt, para trasladar las piezas de un twin turbo a mi n/a, crees que esto es posible?
saludos y gracias
