Water Injection and IC water spray system for Legnum

eddyvr4

Leaving Skid Marks
Location
SA
First Name
Eddy
Drive
2001 Legnum Type S, 2007 Kawasaki ZX14
Setting up a DIY water injection system and an integrated intercooler water spray for a VR4 Legnum.


IMG_0001-2.jpg



This Article details my adventure into the somewhat uncharted world of Water Injecting a Legnum, with some Intercooler water spraying thrown in for good measure. Having spent too much on the car already, the concept of adding water to make the car go harder was appealing, It had an environmentally conscious ring to it, sounded cheap, and I had a spare rainwater tankful at home that I thought could be put to good use.
For the ignorant reader, i start with a brief summary of Water Injection and IC Water Spraying. Ill qualify this to say I have no qualifications in this field, its just my layperson understanding. But I like the watered down theory of it, so here goes:


Water injection 101
What is water injection? (abbreviated now to WI)
Water injection involves spraying water (often water/methanol) INTO the intake tract, to be ingested by the engine along with petrol and air.
Why would I inject water?
Principally, to supress detonation, or raise the point at which detonation occurs, allowing an engine to be tuned more aggressively than without WI, or to provide a greater margin of safety from detonation than without WI.

How does adding water create more power?
It doesn’t, but … ..Water absorbs 6 x the amount of heat than the equivalent volume of fuel. So, instead of running an engine rich to keep temps down, and suffering a resultant loss of power as a side effect (because excessive, unburnt hydrocarbons hinder the combustion process), instead take out all the extra 'cooling' fuel, add 1/6 the amount of water to achieve the same cooling effect, and improved combustion to boot. Add a bit more water and improve cooling even more than with the original rich mixture. At this point there may still be spare room left over in the combustion chamber (after pulling the extra fuel and adding relatively less water), so we can add more air and fuel now to fill that spare space, and hence make more power than previously. Its often said WI has a similar effect to running higher octane fuel - its not that the water 'adds power', but its cooling effect allows you to tune the car harder as if you were running a higher octane fuel than what is actually in the tank. Also it follows at the same tune you can improve your fuel economy, although that was not my concern. Anyway i bought the theory above, although unfortunately i could not convince my tuner of the same, but im getting ahead of myself ..


Water must be injected through a misting nozzle at high pressure to 'atomise' the water - or mist it up very finely. If the bits of water arent really small, they wont absorb much heat, or find their way evenly into each cylinder. 110 - 140psi injection is common, 50psi is probably about the min you would go for. (By comparison fuel pressure is usually 43 to 44psi)
Is a external water sprayer for my intercooler, "water injection"?
Glad you asked, but no it is not. An intercooler "watersprayer" is a great idea, its purpose is to improve the peformance of the intercooler. Reducing intake temps via an intercooler can help raise the point at which an engine starts to knock as well, but if detonation is occuring when intake temps are low, a bigger intercooler or intercooler water spray wont help much.

What are the downsides of WI? Like many mods, theres a few...
Relative complexity of install and operation - pumps, water, wiring, measuring and tuning the system. This, in my opinion, is why you don’t see much of it.
It can be difficult depending on inlet manifold design etc to get even water distribution to all cylinders, and this can greatly impact the effectiveness of WI on certain engines, without going for custom manifold and individual port injection etc - expensive..
Potential for engine damage from detonation if WI fails, requiring extra complexity of safeguards to detect/prevent this. (more later)
Having to top up water.

Now, there are plenty of ifs and buts, but that’s my simplistic understanding and all that’s warranted here.



InterCooler Water Spraying 101
An intercooler water sprayer is the application of a mist of water (under certain conditions (usually under high boost, or when IC temp is high) )on the OUTSIDE of the intercooler to improve its efficiency. Water is sprayed onto the intercooler. As it evaporates, it draws the heat out of the intercooler, cooling it down. The cooler the intercooler core is, the better it works! Generally sprayers are triggered based on boost level, or IC core temp or a combination of both. (Autospeed have a great kit/writeup for an intelligent controlller) Theoretically, with the effect of evaporation, an IC sprayer you can bring the IC core to BELOW ambient temperature, which would be impossible with just a bigger intercooler. A smaller IC with a water spray may be able to outpeform a larger IC core thermally, and also maintain a crisp throttle response that a small IC benefits from. It really doesn’t need more explanation than that.
Disadvantages? Plenty - complexity of pump sprayer/s controlling electronics, having to store and top up water. compared to just bolting in a bigger core with no subsequent maintenance, or risk of problem/failure.

Why try WI on a Legnum?
That’s a very good question:.
-On the dyno, the tuner told me detonation in the midrange was limiting how much advance we could add via the Haltech piggyback and hence how much midrange power we could get. And my intake temps were not that really high. (approx 50 deg peak on dyno runs (pretty cold day mind you)). WI directly targets the detonation problem. I was not convinced a bigger intercooler would help much with the detonation, because my intake temps werent sky high.
-It’s a fairly cheap experiment $ wise.
-Im resisting a bigger intercooler as I don’t want to compromise my throttle response, but im also yet to see proof (hard data) the stock cooler is a limiting factor at my (moderate) power output.
I thought it would be interesting to see what can (or cant) be achieved with WI on a Legnum!.

The car is in a fairly mildly and typically modded state, so my results should be appliccable to a fairly wide audience, whether they be positive or negative. If nothing else, others can learn from my experience….

My relevant (power related) mods are : RPW dumps, full 3inch exhaust (hiflow cat), walbro fuel pump, Haltech interceptor. Manual boost bleed valve. Everything else is stock. (intercooler/airbox/air filter/piping/BOV etc) My dyno chart (which means bugger all for comparison unless you ran your car on this exact dyno) was as below: I include it because graphs look professional, especially to those in management type jobs.

dyno3.jpg


Why try an IC water sprayer on a Legnum?
It does complicate things, but, with the water injection, most of the hardware was there already, all I needed to do was add some extra plumbing and nozzles onto the WI system and I also had an intercooler spray. It only added about $40 to the cost of the system!
I had a theory that I could achieve good results with a water spray on the OEM intercooler, rather than putting in a bigger intercooler. The stock IC is a tube and fin design which in theory flow well, so just increasing its thermal capacity may be all I needed. The problem also with a bigger intercooler is the resultant increase in intake tract volume results in worse throttle response. (how much worse is arguable, but the physics is not.).



My Legnum specific Water Injection design.
Firstly, Where to inject the water? (pre or post turbo/intercooler, multiple points etc)
There are very lengthy debates on this, but the most widely accepted view I could find was: inject water immediately after the intercooler. Why? The greater the temp differential across the intercooler, the more effective it will be. So let the intercooler do it's job as efficiently as possible, THEN add water. Also there is some debate about water droplets damaging turbo impellers and airflow sensors etc, so post intercooler avoids this potential problem altogether. The possible drawback here is theres less tract distance for the water to mix with the air… But whichever way you go, theres always 'some' issue, so that was my decision.
Heres a pic, the nozzle itself does not protrude into to intercooler tube at all, and its on the outside radius of the tube, allowing the (cone) spray more area to be collected by the airflow before it hits a surface. Also the nozzle is easily unthreaded and removed for flow testing/ cleaning etc, and the threaded hole can easily be plugged with a bolt if required. We tapped a M12 thread onto the brass nozzle ourselves.


IMG_0008.jpg



Now, How much water do you inject for a Legnum?
To determine the required flow, the general rule for a street vehicle is you inject at least 10 -15% of the fuel volume, based on the peak power you expect the car to run. Then you tune WI from there. So for the Legnum, I took a very simplistic view, and figured if I was running all six (390cc) injectors at 100% duty cycle, then 2340cc/min is the peak fuel I can flow. So 10% of this is 234cc, (or 234 millilitres of water per minute) so I need a WI system that can deliver around this amount.
As its very difficult to calculate the flow of a DIY setup, so you guesstimate the parts (based on dubious Internet threads like this one) then bench test the connected bits to see what actually does. Sounds complicated, but its not. To measure the flow you simply run the pump off a car Battery with hose drawing from a bucket of water and point the nozzle into a separate container for exactly 1 minute, then weigh the nett water captured, 200grams = 200ccs of water etc etc. If you can do this on a bench, and not on the floor, then you have officially bench tested it. Then when it doesn’t deliver what you expected you order more pricey nozzle tips, poke, prod, spill, test, improvise, hurl spanner at wall, retest, cut, stuff, twist, strip thread, damage paintwork, break a special plastic clip and so on till it eventually succumbs to a simple combination of patience and blind rage. I eventually got to 200cc and called that close enough, preferring to be a little on the low side than too much.
Yep, I had no end of trouble trying to get everything to work properly. I could carry on for hours to cover all the problems, but I wont. In hindsight, my advice would be to buy an off the shelf kit, unless you have a lot of patience fiddling. Before you go rushing off with my uncopyrighted blueprints, note my 'as built' design is compromised, as I was stubbornly trying to keep a tight lid on costs, especially as this is really an experiment with no guarantee of a positive outcome. I had to bypass the pressure limiting switch on the pump otherwise the pump would 'bounce' on and off the pressure switch when spraying (causing an uneven pulse of water, because the tiny nozzle size meant the pump built up too much pressure, too quickly…. Using an 'accumulator' (like a large water hammer arrestor) to store water under pressure ready for injection, would sort this out. The injection signal simply drives the pump flat out, (pump pressure switch bypassed) which is pretty crude. Also, the solenoid I had kicking around (from an old boost controller project that never happened) is not ideal for the job, over 65psi and it intermittently jams, (so I had to put it on the low pressure side of the pump, instead of the high side). The only purpose of the solenoid in my setup is to stop engine vacuum drawing water into the engine when its off boost, and as a safeguard if the pump leaks.
The second big problem I had, was way too much water coming out the intercooler sprayers, and unlike the brass WI bits, the cheap fittings and vacuum hose (pushed over 4mm annealed copper tubing) couldn’t take the pressure. (I couldn’t find hoseclamps small enough) After much headscratching, a plastic restrictor pill inside the water line, (cut the end off a plastic chopstick!) with a tiny, 0.65mm hole in it , brought the pressure and volume of water down to a good amount.
I guess the pump pressure to be around 90 - 100psi, So my actual injection pressure under boost would theoretically be 100psi-16psi = 84psi. All these figures are guesstimated or measured crudely, the idea was simply to check my numbers were in the ballpark with accepted benchmarks, and didn’t vary wildly when the environment changed a bit, which looked to be the case. Lets not forget this is a backyard job after all, and weve got to leave the door open for catastrophic failures, (preferably including a very loud bang or some smoke), otherwise the fun is taken out of it. i swapped the solenoid and pump location from below pic, but it shows how the whole thing just bolts in on the plate.

IMG_0010.jpg


Ok, When do you inject the water?
Basically, inject water around peak torque when the engine load is high. Many systems simply turn on a fixed amount of water spray above a certain boost level ie 6 or 10 psi etc, with a boost switch. (even some expensive ones) As I already run a Haltech interceptor, my plan is to use the extra injector output to control the WI , which gives me the ability to be more selective in the load area where we can inject the water than a simple boost switch. (and maybe even play with duty cycle a bit) But im not sure the outcome would be much better or different, its just I had the haltech there so might as well use it.

The solenoid (on/off water switch) in between the pump and the nozzle stops water leakage under vacuum, and it allows the pump to 'prime' in the background and so the full water pressure is instantly available to the nozzle when the solenoid is pulsed open. On its own, the pump takes a little bit of time to come up to pressure, only fractions of a second, but I believe the solenoid will allow finer and more consistent control and results than powering the pump up and down, which will be more 'laggy'. (apply the same thinking to the fuel system, you don’t pump direct to the cylinder head, you pump to the injector, then fine tune the delivery there...)

In the Legnum, I mounted all the hardware on an aluminium plate under the passenger wheel arch, using existing (unused) factory threaded nuts. no peramnaent alterations were required, and the whole install is basically invisible from under the bonnet, and easily removed. I ran a single 7 core trailer plug cable back into the car for all the power/control so there is a single extra visible balack cable in the engine bay, which is hard to notice. (the tap had to be removed as it couldnt hack the pressure - i wanted this there so i could easily isolate the IC water spray to see what the WI did on its own, but now i just had to run it all together)


IMG_00444.jpg



My Legnum specific Intercooler water sprayer design.
I used annealed copper tube, vacuum hose, some agriculural misting nozzles (5L per hr i think they were) and plumbed it back to the water injection, see pics. the good thing about the copper tube, is you can bend it to shape then it just stays there, no need for unsightly brackets

watersprayer2.jpg


watersprayer3.jpg


watersprayer1.jpg




The electrics:
The electrics costed more in fuel to cover the repeated trips to Jaycar for 'one more bit' than the actual components themselves. (and that’s travelling on the motorbike too). Heres a circuit diagram, my own design. The haltech digital outputs switch to ground, and ive used a solid state relay to allow for fast switching the solenoid. (as opposed to a mechanical relay) There is an Isolate switch so the pump can be isolated in case it ever gets stuck on for some reason. Secondly there is a manual/auto/off rocker, In 'auto', the haltech controls the solenoid, in manual, the solenoid is turned on for manual operation and 'off', for well.. Turning it Off. The light shows when the system is being triggered. I started with a more sophisticated setup, but pared it back to this to circumvent some problems.

CCF14032010_00001.jpg





How often will the water need filling?
The Legnum factory washer bottle holds about 4.5litres, with the WI sprayer running at about 200cc and the IC sprayers about 100cc each, (total 400cc) so i should have about 11 minutes of continuous operation (ie high load/boost) before emptying the bottle, prob ok though not great.

I was able to very easily plumb the hose to the washer bottle simply by drilling, fitting a fat rubber grommet and forcing the pipe in, the hose spreads the grommet and its watertight. It’s a simple 'interference fit' No removal of washer bottle required, which avoided a huge amount of swearing and spanner throwing. The filter is loomstrapped as shown. The filter will avoid nozzle blockages and requires no maintenance. I could have mounted the filter to the same aluminium plate the rest of the hardware, but this way the system should prime more reliably as the water basically flow across and down to the pump by gravity (the pump does 'self prime', but its a very half hearted 'i was made in china' kind of prime…)

IMG_0015.jpg





What if the water does run out?
Will I damage the engine? Will it knock badly at full boost if the water stops? When on the dyno, we found my ECU very, very sensitive to knock, and it very quickly and agressively retarded the timing when knock occurred. So my view is that running out of water is to be avoided, but should not result in engine damage as the factory ECU knock detection will step in and arrest the timing if this occurs. My main concern is that the water wont be distributed evenly, knock will occur only in some cylinders, too far away form the knock detector, and ill ruin the engine this way. But the knock sensor is fairly central… Needless to say this is my main concern, but hopefully we can test during the tuning stage.. On the dyno, Tune, disable WI and see what happens..

Costs
kits seem to cost around $600 upwards + installation (google search on "aquamist")
I took the more stupid - no, "rewarding" and path of sourcing my own bits and pieces as follows:
Sprayer nozzle (Autospeed sourced 'spraying systems' brass nozzle/filter $50
Pump - 2.1L min 55psi 1.8 amp general purpose campervan type pump. (Pressure is actually adjustable upwards of this) $45 off ebay new - a bargain!
Hose - fuel hose 3m $15
Brass fittings $30
Aluminium plate to mount all hardware $20
Custom mounting of sprayer to intercooler cold side pipe $30
5m of 7 core trailer plug cable $20
Switches, misc and solid state relay (jaycar) $45
Hose clamps $8 rubber grommet
Goyen solenoid $0 was kicking around from an old boost control project) - $0
Water filter (to prevent nozzle clogging) $30 (ebay)
=$293
If I was to add up the time stuffing around measuring this and sizing up that and dropping in here and there…explaining the benefits to my 4 yr old daughter etc.. it is ridiculous, but the upside is ive burnt countless months on and off prodding and poking around in the garage, instead of actually driving the car, so the savings in fuel, tyres and traffic infringement notices has actually put me ahead in my bank balance, so in fact this project has made me money. This can be your business case to the missus as well...

So the next installment will cover some results, frustrations & learnings,

to be continued.......
 

steveP

1 AYC Bar
Location
SA
First Name
Steve
Drive
VR4 Galant
arhh i spotted this on ur car at AJD. knew u had something sneaky going on. + repz to all the research and development.
 

Macca

Showing some Leg.
Location
Toowoomba, QLD.
First Name
Craig 'Macca' Mclean
Drive
2000 Mitsubishi Legnum Type S
Damn beat me to it Eddy. I was designing an intercooler sprayer system for when i get round to upgrading my cooler. Very thorough R and D.
 

steveP

1 AYC Bar
Location
SA
First Name
Steve
Drive
VR4 Galant
looking at ur diagram, theres no way to turn on/off the WI or intercooler spray independently. they are either both on or not.

so does that means water injection and the spray is only occring at the selected torque/injector load settings? or on 100% of the time?
 

Scottie

1 AYC Bar
Location
Victoria
First Name
Scott
Drive
1999 Type S Legnum
Nice work. I just skimmed thru it but do you have plans for upgrading your cooler also? I have always considered fitting a water spray kit to some of my cars. Will be interesting to see what results come from this.
 

Gary31

Leaving Skid Marks
Location
Victoria
First Name
Gary
Drive
96 Legnum V-r4
Nice work i am going to look into an intercooler spray sometime soon hopefully.
 

unclepaulie

hellatemplate ;)
Lifetime Member
Location
QLD
First Name
Paul
Drive
hairdresser spec lancer coupe
great work dude, this a really something.

i look forward to a dyno run with and with out WI

i think you would see even better/more effecient results with a full intercooler kit done
 

Gary31

Leaving Skid Marks
Location
Victoria
First Name
Gary
Drive
96 Legnum V-r4
^ its arguable (depending on your definition of full intercooler), bar and plate (which i think is the most common intercooler upgrade) will have little pressure drop however it will not cool as efficiently as a tube and fin.
 

eddyvr4

Leaving Skid Marks
Location
SA
First Name
Eddy
Drive
2001 Legnum Type S, 2007 Kawasaki ZX14
Correct Steve, the WI and IC spray always run together. initially i planned fully seperate systems, but i needed adittional solenoids and pumps to do this and after unsuccessfully trying to run the IC sprayers running off the washer pump, (pressure not good enough) i gave up with that, put in a tap so i could at least isolate the IC sprayer, which then leaked, so i abandoned that as well.. hard to believe, but the thread above is a cut down version of the full story! The full story has too much pain and misery.....
 

steveP

1 AYC Bar
Location
SA
First Name
Steve
Drive
VR4 Galant
btw regarding fmic upgrades, i found that the stock intercoolers had much more lag than larger aftermarket ones. how can this be so with less air volume...? well most stock coolers are very restrictive and have unnecessary bends and so forth.
 

eddyvr4

Leaving Skid Marks
Location
SA
First Name
Eddy
Drive
2001 Legnum Type S, 2007 Kawasaki ZX14
Wow Steve, thats a bold claim! Do you have any kind of data to back that up?

I really wanted to weld on a boost take-off point prior to the OEM intercooler so i could plot and compare boost levels before and after IC. At various boost levels. (and hence get a measure of pressure drop over the IC) But i havent done so. Of course you want to see some pressure drop as this indicates a temp drop, but it still would be a useful experiment. but dyno time isnt cheap..
 

steveP

1 AYC Bar
Location
SA
First Name
Steve
Drive
VR4 Galant
i think it would be very hard to messure lag, as its usually the interpretation of the driver, and every driver will drive the car slightly different.

my claim is just from personal experience. however ive noticed it most significantly on cars upgrading from a side mount intercooler. seeing our cars already have a decent sized front mount. i imagine u wouldnt even notice (by driving the car) that the intercooler had changed. certainly wouldnt notice the car feeling more laggy. but u seem like the tech guy with intercoolers :p i'll wait to see what data u come up with lol.
 

frozen

1 AYC Bar
Lifetime Member
Location
Queensland
First Name
Josh
Drive
1990 Mitsubishi GTO
Formerly: 1996 Galant VR-4
when i went from stock to the greddy spec r, i noticed a big difference... the stock one has a really restrictive looking design, as in it goes in the top, down thin fins, then out the bottom, where as any other goes in and out in a straight line... hard to explain, but the notice was really noticable with the throttle response for me... REALLY noticable..

think of the stock one as a Z shape, and the aftermarket as a straight line ---
which would flow air faster?


edit-
ps. i do believe your wheels are pornography...
 

smitty

Sm'arter than the aver'age bear...!
Location
Frankston South, Victoria
First Name
Alex
Drive
98 FL Galant Type S Manual, FG XR6, VY Acclaim, MQ Triton GLS
Wow, i remember reading up on water injection years ago, but clean forgot about it. Kudos to all the hard work man, might just inspire me to do the same one day!
 

eddyvr4

Leaving Skid Marks
Location
SA
First Name
Eddy
Drive
2001 Legnum Type S, 2007 Kawasaki ZX14
Josh your experience does seem promising, although i recall people with mild vehicles generally report little noticible difference when changing intercooler, beyond maybe a slight increase in lag. But i havent looked at the intercooler upgrade threads for a while...
 

marksanne

Hesitantly Boosting
Location
Netherlands
First Name
Mark
Drive
1999 8G VR2 Galant & 1996 8G VR4 Galant
Nice! Get it on the dyno asap! ;)

Spraying the IC under WOT isn't gonna help that much me thinks, it should spray when the IC gets heated up, which is when there's no / not enough airflow. For example at standstill/idle.

WI is looking great and can't wait to see dyno results or even a bit of your personal 'user experience'!
 

eddyvr4

Leaving Skid Marks
Location
SA
First Name
Eddy
Drive
2001 Legnum Type S, 2007 Kawasaki ZX14
Ok, onto the second installment in this saga…..


<Insert another gratuitous pic of car, for once cleaned to an inch of its life for alljapday show>


IMG_0691.jpg

During the project I became aware of another dyno tune place in Adelaide , called SKR racing, and the proprieter there Steve is ex mitsubishi development and came highly reccomended by a few members, his depth of knowledge on the ECU side was apparently very good and he has a lot of experience with the evo lancers, so I pencilled in a date for us to run up the car and see if we could break something. Previously my car had been tuned by a bloke who admitted he had no experience with the mitsubishis and so hed just tuned it from first principles. Stick with me because these details matter.

I turned up and had 3 hrs only as I had other commitments, which I thought this should be plenty, but in the end it wasn’t enough, and things did not pan out at all as I expected. Firstly steve thought hed have a go at seeing if we could reflash my factory ecu, which is possible if you have the right ECU, and would then make the haltech redundant (apart from controlling the WI) which would be nice. He was able to read, but unable to write to the ECU, so that was a no go which I expected, mine being a later model. Then we spent a bit of time setting up the dyno with all the correct gear and final drive ratios etc so we would have a more accurate reading. Ok , now were ready to go.

Then we both climbed in and did a baseline run, with the whole WI and IC spray disabled. which came in at 146kwatw. What the? I had run 173kwatw last time I had it tuned! (less than 2000kms ago) The first dyno was dyno dynamics and this was a mainline unit. That’s a massive variation between dynos! Anyway, with those numbers my stred cred was now shot but steve wasn’t concerned in the slightest, but what he was fussed about was the AFR which he found to be way to lean up top, and also he was shocked to see how much alteration had been made to the timing in the high load points in the (haltech interceptor) timing map, basically he was very unhappy with the current state of tune of the car, and it was obvious to him it had been tuned by someone not familiar with the mitsi way of doing things.

So we firstly needed to address this before we even touched the water injection. I don’t fully understand it, but what steve was saying went something along the lines of: The factory ECU has 2 maps that it learns between, a high octane and a low octane map (he showed me on my ECU). Apparently if you adjust the timing too far, you 'push' the factory ECU right against one map and restrict its ability to learn and that’s not so good. What was interesting was that Steve said when reflashing evos he usually doesn’t need to touch the timing maps hardly at all (just fuel) so steve backed the timing right off, and richened up the fuel, which, now follow me here… is the exact opposite process the previous tuner had done to incrementally bring me up to my 173kw.
And then to add insult to injury, after taming back the timing and richening up the fuel, we picked up power and torque at every point across the rev range, about 10kwatw at 4500 and up to about 30nm in the midrange.

This is completely baffling, because I watched my first tuner incrementally move the timing and fuel in the opposite direction and the power go up, till we got detonation. I still have no explanation, what I do know though is that this tuning business is beyond me.

So at this point I was not sure whether to be happy or sad, id picked up 10kw and 30Nm, but my grand vision of cracking 180kwatw was further away now than ever! Would my car now be running 183kwatw on the old dyno? who knows..

What we could note here though, was with my intake temp probe, after a few runs (hot day, 30 deg) the intake temps were soaring to 74 degrees, and required an extended idle period to come back down to mid 40s before trying another pull. Steve stated the OEM intercooler was not coping well with the environment it was in (hot day, 16psi, dyno, repeated pulls) anything over 63 degrees or so according to steve is bad (if I recall correctly, maybe it was 60)

Oh, Heres a pic of the intake display - the probe is inserted just after the intercooler (and after the WI nozzle)
IMG_0001_2.jpg

But moving on, and we had to , because time was running short now, ok the water injection, yes, yes, why did we add that? Detonation..um, is detonation a problem now? No IT IS NOT, because we just wound the damn timing back!!!!! For months Id been working on the assumption detonation was my limiting factor particularly in terms of midrange power, and now detonation wasn’t an issue!
Also, the theory of water injection id stated earlier was based around being able to run an engine leaner with WI to get more power, without running into detonation. But we'd just richened up my engine to generate more power! Steve also expressed a negative sentiment towards running it any leaner than it was, he said the mixtures were good now , leave it. . Oh I give up…..

I was just on the way out the front door to throw myself in front of a passing bus , but I paused, as there was still some face to be saved, detonation was not a problem, but intake temps were now a problem after repeated runs, what effect had my 300 dollar system, (primarily targetted at supressing detonation) had on intake temps?

Ok, we had 10 mins left, so we did 2 runs: without the WI/IC spray (remember I can only run them together) and then with.
Before each run we let the temp stabilise back to about 42 - 44 degrees, then stuck the boot in and monitored the temp probe readout.


Run 1 = start 43 degress ----- finish ……...74 degrees.
Run 2 = start 43 degrees ----- finish ……... 48 degrees !!!

Wow! Finally some success! The combination of WI/IC spray reduced peak temps by a huge 26 degrees, and equally impressively the temp during the full load run only rose about 5 degrees. (instead of 30) This is on the factory intercooler at 16psi of boost, on a dyno after repeated runs on a warm day.

Also, on lift off, intake temp rapidly comes back to about 37 degrees as all the residual water on the intercooler evaporated, dropping its core temp back down, basically 'precooling' it ready for the next run. Without the water injection/IC spray, you'd be waiting minutes for the intake temp to come down, this was now reduced literally to seconds with the aid of the WI/IC system.

So again but with the extra information
Run 1 = start 43 degress finish 74 degrees, wiat few mins - back to 43 degrees
Run 2 = start 43 degrees finish 48 degrees , wait 10 seconds back to 37 degrees (yes below the start temp)

When the sprayers were running, you could feel the mist coming past you if you stick your hand out the window. (assisted by the big fan in front of the car of course)
Heres some pics, of the IC sprayer - dont forget the water injection is running as well, but i cant take pics inside the intake pipes.
IMG_0001-3.jpg

IMG_0002-2.jpg

So as a method to drastically reduce intake temps on the stock (or any ) intercooler the system seems to work really well.
What I don’t know is which of the IC spray or the WI is delivering the most benefit. But certainly the fast temp recovery after high load event is the IC sprayer, because the WI is not running after you lift off, and the water in the intake is long gone, but there is a lot of residual water all over the intercooler for quite some time after the sprayers shut off. I suspect its the WI holding the temps down during the high load, and it must be the IC spray rapidly recovering the intake temp to normal after the run.


Ill get home after a drive and the bottom lip of the air dam is all wet still. so the water does hang around. Its this residual water and resultant evaporation that is dropping the temp quickly after a blast.

Steve was of the view the WI was playing a non trivial role in the temp drops, he seemed quite impressed with the change it made.

So, what else to report?

The car will not stall at idle if you activate the sytem, so you can run it at idle, BUT, what happens when you do that is there is not enough airflow to draw all the water into the engine and it begins to pool in the intercooler pipe. Then when you do boot it, the engine momentarily bogs and stutters as it ingests the extra water, so its basically not a good idea to do that. Hydraulic lock and all that guff.

Also on a very hot day outside temp 42 degrees, intake temps were high 40s i cruised along at light throttle at about 40km/hr on a flat road and just tunerd the sytem on continuously for about 30 seconds. The intake temps dropped to 37 degrees… so my intake temp was forced BELOW ambient temp. Try and achieve that with a bigger intercooler!
The colder the day the less benefit the system has, on an icy night, its probably completely unneccessary.
I find I can go for an hour or so blast through the hills at night and it will go through about 4 litres of water, so the washer bottle capacity is acceptable, but only just.

I have had a problem with the 0.65mm IC sprayer restrictor pill blocking, but only once, probably some crap got in during assembly. Also ive had leaks on the pressure side hoses, it’s a fairly big ask to hold back 100psi with fuel hose and hose clamps I guess, but its only under pressure for short bursts at least. so i wouldnt call my DIY system bullet proof, but on a hot day you can tell pretty quick if its working by looking at the temp readout. unfortunately at night i cant tell jack, as the display is not backlit, which does suck as thats usually when any spirited driving occurs. Backlit ones are available.

When you run the system , the outside temp reading on the climate control also drops a lot, as the probe also gets covered with mist. Eh, whatever.

Oh, for what its worth, all the temps above are about 3 degrees higher than actual, because I had to extend the wire on the intake temp sensor and this threw out the callibration a bit. But that doesn’t change the relative benefit at all.

Also a bit of trivia, I find that intake temps seem to be about 7 degrees higher than ambient under light throttle conditions, ie the air temp picks up about 7 degrees passing through everything, when OFF boost.


So all in all it’s a mixed outcome, my hopes of unleashing a mountain of hidden horses from under the bonnet with WI are dashed, but as a budget intercooling solution the system does work really well, even brilliantly..

What I need to do now is:

1- Disable the WI and see how it works with just the IC spray and vice versa

2- Measure the pressure drop across the intercooler to see if in fact it is a restriction (requires dyno to plot boost pre and post cooler) . If there is a significant pressure drop at low temps then I guess a better flowing unit is the go. Although its probably cheaper to just buy an ex evo intercooler than do the dyno measurement…...

But ive had a enough for the time being…….i might stop fiddling for a while and just drive it, that'd be novel…...

For anyone considering water injection or IC sprayers i hope this thread has provided some useful information and maybe whet your appet.... sorry... that was awful...
 

unclepaulie

hellatemplate ;)
Lifetime Member
Location
QLD
First Name
Paul
Drive
hairdresser spec lancer coupe
wow



i dont know where to start, well done on gettin it tuned properly

i think the intercooler spray would probably be the main factor regarding the low intake temps as the temp pin is after the intercooler and before the WI, but we'll hav to see

this is now on my list of todo's after the full FMIC kit is done.


is there a way to program the water spray to come one when full throttle is applied and only after is applied for 5 or so seconds?
 

frozen

1 AYC Bar
Lifetime Member
Location
Queensland
First Name
Josh
Drive
1990 Mitsubishi GTO
Formerly: 1996 Galant VR-4
id be interested to see the difference using an aftermarket intercooler - as i said, i noticed a noticable difference. It feels like it pulls so much harder too, im guessing it cools better than the factory. I do believe the GReddy Spec R is a tube and fin too? just a different design? i dont know - either way, its great.
 
Top Bottom