Which spark plugs are really the best?

[ttgvr4]

NGK plat plugs stock leads, ordered new leads but guy ordered 4g63 instead the day i was doing the plug change so missed out this time. 7 heat range is wat SKR advised and said plat was good enough and i am running 17psi and safe tune of 175kw power band is between 3000rpms and 5000rpms and runs a dreams no dramas so far. Changing coil packs soon, How much am i looking at and wat option do i have??

 

[ttgvr4]

My mistake sorry they are the Laser series platinum:/

 

[twisted32]

NGK plat plugs stock leads, ordered new leads but guy ordered 4g63 instead the day i was doing the plug change so missed out this time. 7 heat range is wat SKR advised and said plat was good enough and i am running 17psi and safe tune of 175kw power band is between 3000rpms and 5000rpms and runs a dreams no dramas so far. Changing coil packs soon, How much am i looking at and wat option do i have??

As far as coils, if you don't want to wait/mess around with a coil on plug setup like Christian is doing, cheapest and easiest way I have seen are new diamond (oe manufacturer) from camskill.

Anyone found anything else?

 

[TME_Steve]

Well I have my car in bits at the moment.... As well as the plug change I am changing back to my 3 port boost controller (I had to turn the PC as I can't remember which port does what) but I did have a good look at the plugs that came out (BKR7EIX). When you look closely, the iridium tip of the rear plugs looks to be rounded, reminiscent of a blob of solder, the front plugs look better shaped and in a bit (marginally) better condition. So better leads or COP would be the go for me I think but not yet as we have this experiment to conduct. The current leads are Top Gun MAX6181 5mm leads and I forgot to measure their resistance (I'll do it next time). The current coils are factory. I couldn't get BKR7 coppers in a 0.8 gap so they are 1.1's regapped to 0.8

And a positive note I found 3 bolts that I had previously thought were lost forever sitting down in the depths....

I'll post up pics of the plugs when I get a chance

Interesting about the iridium tips on the ground electrode on denso plugs.

 

[TME_Steve]

Yeah these were fun to photograph....

Anyway

First Pic Side by side, Front bank plug on the left rear bank plug on the right....

Also note that all of the rear bank plugs and all of the front bank plugs looked very similar, lead length didn't matter, just that there were leads vs not made the difference according to the site he leads are less than 1kohm per meter so they should be good (if you believe Top Gun and the other things about the lead that matter are good eg interference resistance).

Side by Side again, again the front bank plug is on the left.

Front Bank Plug

Rear Bank Plug

.

 

[twisted32]

Is it just my eyes/pictures, or is the ground electrode on the rear bank erroded more than the front?
Did you check the gaps?

 

[TME_Steve]

Yes the ground electrode is more eroded, I'll check the gaps on both today BUT there is also like a dent in each electrode also so I can't measure that

 

[twisted32]

That makes me think the the oe spec plugs either NGK laser series or Denso VKxx will last a lot longer.
You can get the laser platinums in 6 or 7's (PFR6/7J's) on us ebay pretty cheap (less than $10 a plug).

 

[TME_Steve]

You know platinum is not as high a melting point or as hard as iridium and are you sure iriway7's are the same as bkr7eix?

The plug gaps were pretty good between0.8 and 0.9, no correlation between front and rear, but the ground electrode on the rears is definately more eroded.

With the new copper plugs in it runs fine at 18psi and the imrovement down low is phenomenal, at 1500RPM I was starting to think the motor was a bit passed it but now it feels fresh and smooth again, something I didn't expect at all.

 

[twisted32]

I always thought iriway 7's were different to bkr7eix plugs, but I read on a ngk site (not sure which country now) that they are just re-labelled. Same plug, same factory, different marketing.

I know platinum has a lower melting and softer than iridium, thats why iridiums are supposed to be the bees knees, I was finding it hard to locate double tipped iridiums in 7's though.

Good to hear fresh plugs has made such a difference Steve.

 

[TME_Steve]

oops I didn't realise the lasers were available with iridium tips still.... certainly a step up from the ix range....

Tristian, sounds to me like there is something else wrong, plenty here have run 7's fine , just that they don't last, maybe a dud coil
pack? Also what gap are they?

 

[cittris]

Tristian, sounds to me like there is something else wrong, plenty here have run 7's fine , just that they don't last, maybe a dud coil
pack? Also what gap are they?

Could be - everything seemed fine before the changed then afterwards, misfiring.
I will see if someone can spare a sec and help me test my coils, certainly easier than pulling out the plugs and replacing them.

Essentially my troubleshooting process is this.
1. Clean Coil Packs
2. Replace coil packs
3. Replace ignition leads
4. Replace spark plugs.

 

[pu-11-me]

Dawso... if they were the ones from 123AYC and were from the 100k service.. from memory they were Greddy..

Michael.. haven't seen Iriway 8's locally.. well in qld..

*edit*

found a seller in ebay selling Iriway 8's

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/6-x-NGK-Irid...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4cf2a76f2b

Nah, the one's in my car

 

[TME_Steve]

Tris, sounds like you're in for one of those painfull processes of elimination, after I bolted my car back together (and before I started it) I thought to myself, I really should have checked these new plugs for the rear bank work by putting them in the front first, running the car and if OK then putting them in the rear, then again I can't recall ever having a faulty plug from brand new....

In you case I'd be doing everything I could on the front before I pulled the manifold off again so clean coil packs again, swap front plugs with some others (buy another if you need to, you'll need it one day anyway), swap coil packs with someone, then last check the leads and rear plugs.

 

[merlin]

nice plug pix Steve, clearly shows the ground electrode erosion you get on one bank of a dual plug setup.
Unfortunately there is not a lot you can do about it, short of going coil on plug.
Or replacing the plugs regularly. Bummer it is the rears that cop the problem.
Full iridiums will combat the electrode erosion better than any other plug though. In heat range 7, 8 is too cold.
Hi-voltage spark prefers to launch from a sharp point, hence the fine irridium plug point.
The rear bank plugs have the spark launch from the ground electrode, already somewhat rounded, and gets further eroded with use.
So the voltage required to spark the rear plugs rises in proportion to the front plugs.

I do get a bit depressed reading threads like this because the main fix is to use NGK low resistance plug leads.

 

[TME_Steve]

Yeah agree with all of that, I'm hoping Christian has the COP setup sorted before I get the complete shits with it and get the NGK leads or start making a COP setup myself (PS Christian I had a look at EVOX packs and they do look like a possibility, I have a photo if you want).

That said the NGK leads are 0.9kohm per metre and mine are (meant) to be less than 1k anyway so I'm not entirely confident they will fix it. Note also that the ground electrodes get dents in them also making the spark have to go further and not to a consistent spot due to it being the opposite of a point...

My point with this though was to determine the best plug and then that would still be better off with COP or whatever. I would also think that 8's would be too cold and that 7's should be best (hence them eing what is in mine) but if 6's can handle it, they may last longer. Still I'm happy to try them all for the greater good.

 

[naughtika]

Steve, Ive just been digging up more information about COP setup.. apparently it's a worse setup than the stock setup.. but if matched with CDI.. then it's definitely ALOT better..

do you know much about the CDI setup? I'm still going ahead with the COP setup.. at the moment, timing of $$ isn't good.. and still haven't had any replies from Anthony..

 

[TME_Steve]

Hmmm what do you need to kick the COP along? Give me a call and we can pool resources if it helps but in the interests of plug testing I can't fit it to mine yet....

I thought there would be issues with spark duration with CDI, I thought on the Evo's they just add an extra set of coil packs and double up the harness, Dave you have this setup on your IX don't you?

 

[naughtika]

when I spoke to Matt (Spoolinup.com), he said that I dont need to worry about the resistance, latency and stuff like that.. just make up the connector then split it into to coils (1&4, 2&5, 3&6) and same information was also said by Anthony (ae86drivingclub.com.au)

my problem is finding a set of coils that would fit without touching the plug hole's wall.. Steve are you able to get hold of a 4B11T coilpack and test fit it? if it fits.. length & diameter.. then it would be a better replacement due to being an oem item from that motor.. but my question with that is how reliable is it? I've read that the denso ones are far better than the diamond made coilpacks..

 

[TME_Steve]

Dunno how reliable they are but most of the evo X gear is proving to be good but who knows, they're not old enough yet I guess.... Yep I can try one, a friend of mine has one so I can park them side by side and try it in the front in 10 mins, as for the rear well I'd need to time that with my next plug change. Are they the same size holes? I didn't look.... Also his has a TMR tune so it runs some ridiculous boost level and he has no problems with plugs and more than 30000km mostly city on the original plugs +1 for COP again.

Also, my copper plugs have had their first miss already, only one but it was dfinitely there at (as high as most of us would dare) 18.8psi of boost and 3500RPM ish. I tried it probably 10 more times and never again did it miss but it was there.... Does it mean we are approching 8's at 17-17.5 psi??? Or maybe I should gap them to 0.7....