Twin Turbo Upgrade for 6A13TT

Gav

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sorry if this has been answered but i couldn't find it but @pretzil what rpm is boost kicking in at and where does it die off
 

pretzil

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It's hard to say where it kicks in, it looks about the same point as stock but feels a touch later.
The dyno chart I posted on here somewhere should show exactly.

I think the dyno showed it didn't trail off much
 

ersanalamin

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Ersan Al Amin
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Okay then, This is my way in modifying stock turbo TD03.

My car fully over hauling now. engine rebuilt with new crank journal bearing, conrod bearing, ARP bolt for head, conrod and crank bolt, OS 0.50 low comp CP Piston, Prism conrod, Kennelly cam regrind + BC Crower stiffer valve spring (bought from Adam Findlay, thanks bud) are in. Then I decide to follow Rick's way to modify the Turbo. I choose direction to modify my stock TD03-7T superback comp wheel into 10T and not into 12T. My consideration are:
  1. I simply dont wanna mess around replacing stock turbo with TD04-13T with all custom manifold and piping with no guarante the job will be neat and look like factory option. Beside i will be tempted further to hi flow the TD04-13T into TD04-19T and surely it will be very costly and very long time consuming job, and i dont want my car off road for months.
  2. Along with other supporting mods my target for peak power is not very high let say 400 whp. Which I still believe we will reach for that with hi flow TD03 and with all my new supporting mods without sacrifice the neat look of the engine.
  3. Safety reason, some said issue with stock turbin shaft ( bore 4 mm) would be snapped if we use the 12T Compressor wheel with Hi Boost. the 4 mm diamater bore turbin shaft wont stand hi boost for so long. So far 12T comp wheel available only in Kinugawa custom billet comp wheel with extended tip (racing purpose)
  4. Expert said the compressor wheel size should not wayyyyy bigger than turbin wheel due to compressor surge issue (what you need to know when upgrading turbo reff link http://turbolabofamerica.com/turbo-upgrade-2/ )

Based on rick's way and my consideration, I decide to retain Stock CHRA and option on turbin and comp wheel hi flowing stock TD03 are:

  1. Stock Turbin Wheel (12 Blade RH Thread lock nut) + Stock BMW N54 TD03-10T Compressor wheel (6+6 Blade in = 35.5 mm Ex = 46)
  2. BMW Turbin Wheel (11 Blade LH Thread lock nut) + Stock BMW N54 TD03-10T Compressor wheel (6+6 Blade in = 35.5 mm Ex = 46)
  3. Stock Turbin Wheel (12 Blade RH Thread lock nut) + BMW N54 TD03-10T Kinugawa/Mambatek billet comp wheel (6+6 Blade in = 35.5 mm Ex = 46) with ext.Tip.
  4. BMW Turbin Wheel (11 Blade LH Thread lock nut) + BMW N54 TD03-10T Kinugawa/Mambatek billet comp wheel (6+6 Blade in = 35.5 mm Ex = 46) with ext.Tip.


TD03-10T Kinugawa/Mambatek billet comp wheel turns out lighter than stock BMW N54 stock comp wheel and about same weight with VR4 TD03. Then I decide to choose option 3 to save money BMW 11 blade turbin wheel and try not to loose stock turbo low rpm responsivenes. I bought off on ebay 2 set brand new repair kit with paper gasket included and 2 pc Kinugawa/Mambatek BMW N54 billet comp wheel with extended tip. cost me $370 AUD shipped.

Stock BMW N54 11 Blade turbin wheel LH Thread Lock Nut
https://www.turborebuild.co.uk/webs...03-Turbo-Fits-turbo-49131055000110112131.html

Kinugawa/Mambatek comp wheel
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbo-Bille...5i-735i-TD03-10T-35-5-46-mm-6-6-/171937374925

Repair kit with paper gasket ( a bit expensive)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MHI-TD03-TD...m417cb1eb95:m:mPHjjG9-QEvw1DlC1pevMcQ&vxp=mtr

if you just want to buy paper gasket and buy TD03 repair kit cheaper on ebay.
https://www.turborebuild.co.uk/webs...Compressor-Housing-Turbo-Gasket-934657mm.html



Here are the picture of comparison comp wheel between Stock comp wheel, Stock BMW N54 Comp Wheel and Kinugawa/Mamba Comp Wheel

DSC_1015_zpsgf3u1dx1.jpg


DSC_1016_zpsgpq7c2bt.jpg



On Compressor housing before honing

STOCK VR4 Comp wheel

DSC_1017_zpsha8iw9an.jpg


STOCK BMW N54 Comp Wheel

DSC_1018_zpsttf9fvyg.jpg


KINUGAWA/MAMBA BMW N54 Billet Comp Wheel (noted the extended tip)

DSC_1019_zpszbxsv2wo.jpg


Comp Wheel data

Stock
In = 32 mm
Ex = 44 mm
Trim = 52.89

Stock BMW N54
In = 35.5mm
Ex = 46 mm
Trim = 59.55

BMW N54 Kinugawa/Mamba with Extend Tip
In = 35.5 mm
Ex = 46 mm
Extended Tip Up to 49.50 mm

Based on data I would expect 20% air flow improvement more than stock on using Kinugawa/Mambatek billet comp wheel.

Everything I got in hand at my side, I came to local turbo workshop to get rest of the job done. Cost me $700 AUD for honing and wheel balancing. Here are the picture of result

DSC_1268_zps32ai8a3i.jpg


DSC_1269_zps0nmhkw7d.jpg


DSC_1273_zpsy5rkou02.jpg


DSC_1266_zps6dztq28v.jpg


c2ab7b55-2c5e-40d5-955c-2b68b1a00f3d_zpspmahzezf.jpg


Based on picture I am very sure the Kinugawa/Mamba 12T billet comp wheel will still fit into stock compressor housing, they are still meat available to hone. Any bigger than that wont fit. 12T comp wheel has 38 mm inducer, 48 exducer with extended tip up to 52 mm. Maybe wiould generate 30% more air flow than stock. But dont ask me for how long whether 4 mm stock turbin shaft will stand the hi boost. if i have money surplus, maybe it will be become next project with my spare rear turbo, or maybe you guys try if you dare, then tell us the result.

Power improvement due to hi flow turbo is still unknown because of over hauling engine is still on going. I hope it will be finish before new year. then i will run for some dyno chart. but BMW N54 forum said this kind hi flow turbo alone would add at least 50 hp given the same turbo boost.

Okay, Hi flowing TD03 already done, aline with that i also replace the stock internal wastegate with aftermarket uprate dual port adjustable internal wastegate (actuator) made by Forge Motorsport for Renault GT 5 / 21. I use 18 psi rated spring (blue marked spring) ( http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/Renault_5_and_Renault_21_Adjustable_Actuator--product--86.html. ) The main reason for uprating internal wastegate is to avoid boost spike and try to hold boost up to redline. Boost spike and boost drop were which I was suffer when tuning with the HKS EVC 5 a year ago when I tried to reach 1.3 bar max boost.

I bought 2 pc forge motorsport actuator off ebay.co.uk and order custom adjustable traveling shaft and wastegate mount on local workshop using spare stock internal wastegate since i receive it. the stock wastegate completely gone, we only need its mount. ha ha ha. BTW we've done it 2 years ago, and yet ready to install this year. wow.

and heres the result

DSC_1274_zpsfop51ahm.jpg


Heres the latest picture with hi flow turbo + dual post internal wastegate assembled together ready to get them installed.

DSC_1277_zpstrkf1syb.jpg


Note the picture new direction of dual port of adjustable internal wastegate. differ direction than stock due to new existing of dual port. I have to reposition direction the new front and rear internal waste gate so the port direction wil not hampering any other tight section in the engine.

DSC_1278_zps2vtajoa8.jpg




The mods on engine is not finish yet but it will come to the last chapter near soon as i am only focusing in engine internal right now. Thats what i ve done so far . I hope it will help everyone in defining whatever direction turbo mods they choose. And I pray the result will run as i expected, so the spare time sacrificed for family (my love for them), effort, though and money i spent is not a waste. wish me luck guys.
 

6A13TT TYPE S

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What did that roughly set You back to build
Was 1100nzd odd for machining balancing and both rebuild kits they came back fully assembled. (Not my car, ill save the details on the build for the owner to post when he wants)
Plus the cost of the billet wheels from kinugawa.
 

veegeeta

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fto with 6A13TT & bf xr6 turbo
So who's gonna offer these already done? and as a exchange to send ours back for the next person ? I would be in for that
 
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ersanalamin

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Ersan Al Amin
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Year 2000 EA5A => FL EC5A
Was 1100nzd odd for machining balancing and both rebuild kits they came back fully assembled. (Not my car, ill save the details on the build for the owner to post when he wants)
Plus the cost of the billet wheels from kinugawa.

Okay, how much do you want for machining and wheel balancing only?, maybe you can beat the price of my local turbo workshop
 

6A13TT TYPE S

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I will once this car is up and going
So who's gonna offer these already done? and as a exchange to send ours back for the next person ? I would be in for that
I will after we have proven worth while dyno results with the car that has them fitted.
But you lads have to provide turbos that aren't toast on exchange..
 

ersanalamin

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Ersan Al Amin
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Year 2000 EA5A => FL EC5A
I will once this car is up and going

I will after we have proven worth while dyno results with the car that has them fitted.
But you lads have to provide turbos that aren't toast on exchange..

I have a spare rear turbo but the turbin shaft must be replaced thats for next project with 12T comp wheel. I am very interested depend ur dyno result and the machining price
 

veegeeta

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fto with 6A13TT & bf xr6 turbo
I will once this car is up and going

I will after we have proven worth while dyno results with the car that has them fitted.
But you lads have to provide turbos that aren't toast on exchange..
Good thing I got 2 good spares I been hanging onto for this sort of thing.
 

jungle

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@jungle I'd love to hear more about porting heads. Have you covered it in your project diary? I'm still a bit uncertain of how they flow.

I was just re- reading this and realised I hadn't answered your question.
No ive not really covered it, didn't feel the need to.

But I've done 3 sets now. I didn't flow test them, cause at the time the flow test shop needed to make stuff to perform the testing. I didn't have the money to do that so I didn't bother. I am confident what I did will help raise the exhaust flow potential a decent amount. I had a good talk with the engineering shop owner about what to port and what to leave. He was impressed with my efforts after I returned a head to show him for some feedback.
I would like to flow test it to see the effect and get some numbers, be good to compare with EVO heads.

But I have no more stock heads, I am waiting for another 2 stock sets to arrive. But I'm off overs as on a holiday in a few months till the end of the year so probably won't get the chance to get flow numbers before I go
 

6A13TT TYPE S

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spun the nuts off the shafts and lunched both turbos within less than 100km of driving so that car has reverted to stock turbos.
 

rbrtpalin

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Aargghhh. No good. Feel for him. Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained!
 

rbrtpalin

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So, now that I have successfully fitted my high flow turbos, here is a write up explaining what I did, what I learned, and what I would do differently next time.

Unfortunately THIS IS NOT A GUIDE, it is more of a list of things I did.

I purchased 2nd hand CHRAs from the BMW 335i twin turbo 3.0L engine on ebay from the USA.

The exhaust side of the turbine is a perfect match to our housing and V-Band fitting, so it requires absolutely no exhaust modification work, not even removal. This was the major drawcard for an easy upgrade.

This is how the CHRA’s arrive:
Unfortunately those damn oil and coolant fittings are press-fittings don’t match anything you can buy.


The interesting thing is that the BMW front and rear turbos have the coolant lines on a flipped sides for front and rear. So I was able to decide which way to face them.

Not only is the compressor wheel bigger, but the exhaust wheel has a different design. The blade faces are wider, and it has 1 fewer blades, which should let more exhaust through.

Next was to get these new CHRA’s mated to our housings.
This wasn’t as straight forward as it first seemed, while we still have plenty of ‘meat’ to machine to make these fit, it turns out BMW mate the CHRA to the compressor housing with an O-Ring, while Mitsubishi used a gasket…

Fortunately my turbo guy at Munro Racing Turbos is a genius and wouldn’t let this stop him, custom machining up a tiny slither of a centering ring to make them made up.. He also made up a custom oil adapter that pressed into the original hole, and let me use the original hard lines + banjos.
He also did a re-balance of the turbos.



For the coolant fittings, I asked him to just drill and tap the original holes, which were already 15mm diameter, to 3/8” BSPT, so that I could make up my own adapters for the original M12 Banjos. I couldn’t buy 3/8”bsp to M12 adapters anywhere, so I re-drilled a different adapter size and tapped it myself.
In the end these fit nicely and worked well, but originally, like an IDIOT, I used thread tape to seal the adapter... It leaked like a sieve, I had to pull them all back out and did it with thread sealant the 2nd time.


I then used a blowtorch, pipe bender, and brute force to bend the original hard lines to suit. I flared the ends then filed them off to create a ‘bead’. Fortunately they are steel and seemed to take it alright.


"Bolt on upgrades for the VR4 dont exis..."

I used head shield on the rear turbo lines because of how close to the rear exhaust manifold they go.

In the end, these could be fitted in 1 day with 2 people, I did it in 2.5 lazy days working solo. All you really need to do is unbolt the oil and coolant fittings, and undo the V-Band from around the exhaust housing.

Here is the result, more power thru the rev range, 10kW improvement at 3psi less peak boost. The turbos were not the limiting factor, we only held back for fear of head studs etc.

Please note, this is 200kW through the automatic box, which seems to lose 30-40kW compared to equivalent manuals.



Discussion:
All up, this upgrade came to about $800 including parts, machining, balancing, fittings, hose, clamps etc. (although because he had already quoted me before getting to learn about the job, the turbo guy said it would cost more to do the same next time lol, I got a bargain)

The other issue is the amount of stuffing around I had to do to figure out how to do this.
If I was to do it again, I wouldn’t do it this way. I would buy the BMW CHRAs, have them ripped apart, and slotted into our bearing housings with a rebuild. That way the original coolant lines etc would all match exactly with 0 custom work on my part.

THE SHAFTS ARE IDENTICAL, so anyone talking about high flows breaking shafts, BMW already considers these wheels matched and suitable.


If you wanted to do it with just a pure swap of the compressor wheel, using our original exhaust wheel and shaft, it would only take a small amount of machining to fit the wheel:

So Rick, what other supporting mods do you have on the car? Full exhaust etc? Keen to run with standard turbos also and minimal changes to get 200KWATW.
 

6A13TT TYPE S

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Aargghhh. No good. Feel for him. Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained!
yeah was a balls up start to finish we ended up swapping turbos on that car 3 times. and I suspect its because they were not assebled correctly but what can you do about it. ran out of money to pursue it further.
 
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