Twin Turbo Upgrade for 6A13TT

[GMan]

Interesting -- I would be hoping that we could tune out the lag. I like to have my cake and eat it too! Yes, it sounds like a very good bang-for-buck upgrade. It's hard to believe it's so easy, actually

 

[mookers]

Good stuff Rick. Have you got larger sizes of the photos?

 

[ersanalamin]

I have noticed a very slight increase in lag, compared to 0 lag with the old turbos anyway.
But once it comes on, it comes on hard. I am hoping to get it out to the drag strip to know for sure.

There is a lot more left in the turbos, if you have upgraded your head studs, and not already pushing coolant like I was, you could get much more out of them I would think.

This was all done just to prove it was possible. And it is.
I would not recommend this to people who aren't interested in dyno figures or drag times, I do kind of miss the old responsiveness, but that can be addressed further tune options.
But this tiny lag bothering me at all is hilarious compared to the difference a big single or larger twins would make.

(I may have gotten overly excited by the P-Plate falcon ute with the subwoofer blaring, he tried to go for a split second then thought better of it.)

But as a relatively cheap upgrade (budget about $1400 to do this properly with a rebuild etc), but considering people pay upwards of $1000 for a set of coilpacks, I think it is quite cheap.
Most importantly IT IS VERY EASY, other turbo upgrades involve full exhaust fabrication work, often an engine out job. I didn't even have the risk of stripping an exhaust stud.

wouldnt be easier and cheaper to buy TD03-10T compressor wheel (wider than stock) on ebay and to have the compressor housing machined? just the same work you did wasnt it?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/262249425283?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649


BTW IHMO if i keen on more power i dont want to use TD04, better use little garret gt25. + custom manifold this small garret turbo seem able to push max 2 bar each turbo.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331127944584?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

 

[pretzil]

wouldnt be easier and cheaper to buy TD03-10T compressor wheel (wider than stock) on ebay and to have the compressor housing machined? just the same work you did wasnt it?

TD03-10T is what I used, and yes that was pretty much my realisation that I discussed at the end, cheaper maybe not, once the rebuild, balancing and machining is all factored in. You would also have to machine the bearing housing to make the bigger exducer size fit.
My method gets to use the higher flowing BMW turbine wheel.

Also, yeah, if you want big power etc use the GT25 etc, but as I stated, my intention was to avoid touching the exhaust manifold.

 

[pretzil]

Good stuff Rick. Have you got larger sizes of the photos?

I do have larger photos, but compressed them first to avoid flooding the page, what would be the best way to upload them?

 

[mookers]

The forum now auto-thumbnails the images when you place them inline with your post. Just resize them down to fit on an average size screen before uploading them, then people will be able to click the thumbnails for more detail

 

[ersanalamin]

TD03-10T is what I used, and yes that was pretty much my realisation that I discussed at the end, cheaper maybe not, once the rebuild, balancing and machining is all factored in. You would also have to machine the bearing housing to make the bigger exducer size fit.
My method gets to use the higher flowing BMW turbine wheel.

Also, yeah, if you want big power etc use the GT25 etc, but as I stated, my intention was to avoid touching the exhaust manifold.

Okay then, so what power maximum hi flow td03 would you estimated with no worries with supporting mods?

 

[pretzil]

Okay then, so what power maximum hi flow td03 would you estimated with no worries with supporting mods?

I'm no expert on this stuff, but based on the 230kW ethanol figures I have seen from manuals with stock turbos, and the amount of extra flow these seemed to have with boost holding ability, I would have to estimate 240-250kW manual?

 

[ersanalamin]

I'm no expert on this stuff, but based on the 230kW ethanol figures I have seen from manuals with stock turbos, and the amount of extra flow these seemed to have with boost holding ability, I would have to estimate 240-250kW manual?

honestly i am expecting more than that, I assume stock Td03 would hit max 1,5 bar boost, with fine tuning, I am expecting 6a13tt would produce 350 hp on crank, boost level 1,2-1,3 bar. everything remain stock.

vargas turbo said your modified td03 should add at least 50 hp on crank.

But like you i am no expert on this

I will rebuild my engine soon, forged internal plus arp head and girdle. i will make decision whether high flowing stock td03 or another turbo with custom manifold and piping later on. curious to see, my engine power improvement will be.

my decision would be easier if you can show us how much max power your engine can deliver with hi flow td03. you should push the boost to the limit he he he

 

[pretzil]

There is only one real way to find out I suppose, until recently it seemed everyone has just put it in the too-hard basket, or tried to aim way too high, but there are finally some modest turbo upgrades going on around the place, rather than:
"wouldn't these be a good upgrade, has anyone ever tried it? I don't want to even attempt if no one else has"
Someone has to be first to try.

 

[ersanalamin]

There is only one real way to find out I suppose, until recently it seemed everyone has just put it in the too-hard basket, or tried to aim way too high, but there are finally some modest turbo upgrades going on around the place, rather than:
"wouldn't these be a good upgrade, has anyone ever tried it? I don't want to even attempt if no one else has"
Someone has to be first to try.

right, i estimate hi flowing td03 would cost at least $800 AUD in my country, $100 AUD for 2 new comp wheel, $200 AUD for 2 turbo repair kit (must replace to extend turbo life), $500 AUD for balancing and machining. the other hand i estimate $1200 AUD budget for TD04 + custom manifold and piping with no guarantee for neat factory look installation. difficult decision for limited budget. money for power comparison kept in the darkside, seems no one even with td04 upgrade push the car to the limit.

 

[twisted32]

Rick,
Can you confirm that the BMW turbine shaft has a LH thread compared to the RH thread on the VR4 shaft? I was asking the US seller of those CHRA's but did not get an answer.

 

[pretzil]

The BMW one I pulled apart does have left hand thread.
I was under the impression that not all VR4 ones are right hand thread like the ones I pulled apart?

Why do you need to know?

 

[veegeeta]

The BMW one I pulled apart does have left hand thread.
I was under the impression that not all VR4 ones are right hand thread like the ones I pulled apart?

Why do you need to know?

I can confirm that some vr4s turbos are left hand thread . I have 2

 

[twisted32]

Because the rh thread leads itself to coming undone by design....
The spare VR4 turbos I have are RH thread, and now that I think about it, I am not sure about the ones fitted.
The LH thread and slightly bigger comp wheels are why the BMW CHRA assemblys were an attractive option.

 

[lateshow]

honestly i am expecting more than that, I assume stock Td03 would hit max 1,5 bar boost, with fine tuning, I am expecting 6a13tt would produce 350 hp on crank, boost level 1,2-1,3 bar. everything remain stock.

vargas turbo said your modified td03 should add at least 50 hp on crank.

But like you i am no expert on this

I will rebuild my engine soon, forged internal plus arp head and girdle. i will make decision whether high flowing stock td03 or another turbo with custom manifold and piping later on. curious to see, my engine power improvement will be.

my decision would be easier if you can show us how much max power your engine can deliver with hi flow td03. you should push the boost to the limit he he he

Forged internals are waste of time for td03 turbos unless you're a fan of track driving. Well then evo would be the choice. In my opinion you 350 from is about the truth. We have heard some unbelievable clearly over 200awkw results (translate to 400 hp from the crank) from totally stock turbos but they wouldn't flow that much. Fuel type can't change that. Go for custom manifold and totally another turbo.

Maybe a modified td03 is the way to go if you want good driveability and such but at the end of the day good driveability won't let you pass an M5 or S4 on the motorway

 

[Gav]

We have a few cars in Aus that run stock turbos and get over 200 but all are Manuals.

 

[ersanalamin]

Forged internals are waste of time for td03 turbos unless you're a fan of track driving. Well then evo would be the choice. In my opinion you 350 from is about the truth. We have heard some unbelievable clearly over 200awkw results (translate to 400 hp from the crank) from totally stock turbos but they wouldn't flow that much. Fuel type can't change that. Go for custom manifold and totally another turbo.

Maybe a modified td03 is the way to go if you want good driveability and such but at the end of the day good driveability won't let you pass an M5 or S4 on the motorway

M5? you kidding dude, the best shot we can beat m5 is use Twin Garret Gt25, spool sooner than stock Td03 and able to boost to red line, forged internal, 1000 cc injector, Aquamist WAI, up rate fuel pump, up rate clutch. that being said if the stock crank can handle more than 600 hp ha ha ha.

 

[lateshow]

M5? you kidding dude, the best shot we can beat m5 is use Twin Garret Gt25, spool sooner than stock Td03 and able to boost to red line, forged internal, 1000 cc injector, Aquamist WAI, up rate fuel pump, up rate clutch. that being said if the stock crank can handle more than 600 hp ha ha ha.

First of all I wasn't saying which M5 i was referring to. I don't know any application which would spool faster than stock turbos with E85. You're right that in order to have a really fast car, there should be a wider power area. Maybe mivec would help. I still can't think that a twin garret setup would be faster. And there are many other issues like I'm still not sure about how the heads flow.

 

[ersanalamin]

First of all I wasn't saying which M5 i was referring to. I don't know any application which would spool faster than stock turbos with E85. You're right that in order to have a really fast car, there should be a wider power area. Maybe mivec would help. I still can't think that a twin garret setup would be faster. And there are many other issues like I'm still not sure about how the heads flow.

Well my aim is 450 whp, with supporting mods and stock turbo, I assume with 1,5 bar boost (max td03 turbo can be achieved) i am still believing it is not impossible. I am not chasing huge horse power. No E85 in my country the best is 100 ron (very exPensive) and 95 RON. I am counting on RON 95 + AEM WAI