Lifter Noises

[Macca]

Hey guys

I know you guys have probably covered this somewhere but i couldn't find it. What i wanted to know is...

I test drove a leggie in brissy today and on startup i detected a tapping sound, and from experience it sounded like the lifters, the dealer later explained that it was the lifters and that it was pretty common with mitsubishi's to have noisy lifters, which i might believe because a mate of mine recently replaced the lifters in his 4G63, so i dont know if thats true or not so could some one confirm that as well, after the car warmed up the noise stopped. So what i want to know is:

Are noisy lifters detrimental to your engine or is it just a part that is a little worn and making noise?

Cheers guys

 

[dimi_108]

Craig, using the word "lifter" in the search will bring up oodles of results.
Here's one of them.

Basically, we use a product called Pro-Ma MBL8. Us VR-4 owners swear by it and you can purchase it from here with next day express post delivery anywhere in Australia.

Please use the search function in future.

 

[bogan bob]

It has been discussed elsewhere but.....

The 'ticking' noise is kind of the norm, it doesnt have any effect on performance on the road. Normal maintenance (i.e. service every 5000kms) through oil changes with the right oil generally keeps the noise down.

 

[pu-11-me]

Scarily enough, using the correct oil makes the lifter noise worse. I done a flush on mine with heavier oil and it ceased to exist lol

As Dimi said, use the Pro-Ma

 

[Macca]

Cheers guys, Tried searching guess im just blind. Hahaha.

 

[weeaazz]

i agree with you dawso,my lifter noise was very loud with 0w-30,but when i used 5w-30 the next time is was far quiter.AND THEN when i used lifter quietener and 5w-30 it was almost gone altogether

 

[king_panther]

As Dimi said, use the Pro-Ma

The guys at MEEK just shuddered when I said there's guys using Pro-Ma on their lifters to take away noise.

He said it may take away the noise, but it's indicative of there being an issue with the lifters themselves. If they're at the point where the noise is real bad, it means they require changing, not using an additive to suppress the noise.

Just my 2c.

 

[pu-11-me]

They just get air in them. Brent (Outlanded) gave me the low down on it as he actually took them out and physically bled his to shush them. Can't remember whether it was on the VR4 or something else but its the same principal.

Would be interested to speak to Meek though.... There could be another aspect of it we are missing?

 

[SiliconAngel]

Its a common problem with the type of hydraulic lifters (or lash adjusters and also sometimes known as 'tappets', although I doubt any self-respecting automotive professional would ever be caught doing so) Mitsubishi used in lots of their vehicles. All the '90's Magnas suffer from it too.

Basically the lifter sits between the valve stem and the rocker arm. Its compressible by design so the valve stem isn't damaged as its shunted by the motion of the rocker arm, but its meant to be full of oil which will ensure there's no play during operation. As the lifter wears it doesn't hold oil quite as well as it should and so instead of it pressing against the end of the valve stem continuously there's a tiny gap as the rocker arm reaches the apex of its travel. This gap is closed as the rocker arm comes back down, shunting the lifter back into the end of the valve stem, resulting in the tiny 'ping' that we hear as lifter noise. Even just one slightly faulty lifter will be noticeable but its not uncommon for many to wear in the same way over time, resulting in a veritable cacophony of rattling lifters.

Always ensure your oil is in good order (regularly replaced) and topped up right to the 'full' fill mark. If you're running low on oil the lifters may not be adequately filled (they are the highest point in the engine, after all) which will actually cause the damage which makes them start to make noise in the first place.

To address the point Dawso made, the thinner your oil the quicker it will seep out of the microcracks in the lifter. The thicker the oil the more effective the lifter will be at containing it, thus less (to no) ticking. Using additives can have a similar result, but just be aware that by using additives you're altering the properties of the oil - sure, you may end up with quiet lifters, but have you reduced the oil's lubrication of the engine in the process?

You can also service your lifters by removing them, cleaning them in something like diesel fuel, priming them with clean oil by hand and then replacing them. The first 60 seconds of running the engine after doing this they may actually be worse than ever if you haven't primed them properly, but if they just needed a clean this may well improve them for a while. I found doing this on my Magna eliminated lifter noise completely for about four months, but then it was back with a vengeance as two of the eight lifters decided to gradually collapse.

If the seal in a lifter cracks (as opposed to slight wear) it's toast as it won't hold pressure at all and you MUST replace it. However if your lifter noise is mild (which it usually is) there really isn't much cause for concern - most lifters will carry on like this for several hundred thousand kms before the owner does something rather more serious to some other part of the vehicle, thus ending any concern over the mildly annoying tapping lifter noise.

Personally my car has only made lifter noise on a couple of occasions since I started using Amsoil 0W30 in it, and that's because the oil level dropped a few mm below the full mark. Most people really don't notice it that much once they've been assured its normal and nothing to worry about, but if you're the kind of person who is annoyed by such noise, you've tried all of the above and several different brands of recommended oil (please don't run thicker oil in your VR4 just for lifter noise) and its still there, then your only option is replacement. Remember there are 24 lifters in a VR4 so it won't be cheap, but I have been able to find lifters in Australia for under $14 each so it doesn't need to be nearly as expensive as Mitsubishi would have you pay (they're $65 each genuine!).

So yes, on the subject of not using additives I agree with Meek - use the correct oil for the engine, don't choose one to hide a problem like noisy lifters or you may well cause far more serious problems down the track. If the noise is SUBSTANTIAL, yes they definitely need replacing, but if its just a mild 'ticking' I wouldn't be concerned about it unless you're particularly anal about such things.

 

[frozen]

Craig, using the word "lifter" in the search will bring up oodles of results.
Here's one of them.

Basically, we use a product called Pro-Ma MBL8. Us VR-4 owners swear by it and you can purchase it from here with next day express post delivery anywhere in Australia.

Please use the search function in future.

being a bit general there i definately dont use additives.. or swear by them

I find that for the first 1000-2000km after an oil change its completely silent - but then it starts up again... mainly on the first 60 seconds of running the car.
I'll probably get to replacing them.. when money permits

 

[Guest]

I also part;ly agree about the additives except I do swear by the pro ma as I used it in my 1991 vr4's and it made the noise quieter and the motor ran nicer and I have seen porsche race engines use the stuff and the engine was in better nick then a engine without pro ma but each to their own.
I wish I had my 4ltr bottle of pro ma here I miss it.

 

[SiliconAngel]

If you want to know how to clean and prime your lifters, there's a good guide here that sounds like it's straight out of a Mitsi service manual.

 

[Macca]

Cheers guys lots of great info. I just heard the engine ticking while it was cold and wondered what the hell it was and wether it was detrimental. Now I know. As for additives or not, guess I'll have to decide when I find the right Legnum.

Thanks

 

[junior]

My old car, XW Fairmont 302W had the same problem, on startup the lifters were noisy. I found if I turned to engine off straight away and waited about 5 sec and re started, the ticking went. I have had the same success on the odd occasion it has happened with the Legnum.

 

[cyber_scriber]

Gary.

I have read that starting a cold engine, immediately turning it off and then restarting it, places considerable wear and tear on the engine.

If the engine oil ads are to be believed, the most stress placed on an engine is on start up (because the oil hasn't had a chance to circulate throughout the engine). Given this, I tend to think it may not be ideal to start, stop and then restart a cold engine in rapid succession.

 

[Macca]

especialy a turbo engine

 

[SiliconAngel]

Just as an addendum for those who aren't aware, there's info floating around somewhere describing how to bleed and prime your lifters by running the engine in a certain fashion. Several members have reported success using this technique, so might be worth a go

 

[Tom]

I get lots of lifter noise in the first couple of minutes, then it goes quiet and is quiet for the rest of my driving session, until the next time my car is fully cooled over night, and started up the next morning...

I don't get lifter noise when I go to my car after work is over, just in the mornings lol

I added that ProMa stuff in, the next day I didnt get it for ages.. Then I managed to let my oil level slip, so then the noise came back.. I topped it up, and it was quieter.. Now it's due for an oil change and the noise is slowly coming back..

 

[jaygore]

ARGH my lifter noise has gotten extremely bad, its constant and it doesnt seem to stop at all... and its gotten really loud, i did an oil change about 2000 kms ago and ever since it has gotten really cold, it just doesnt seem to go away anymore... is this bad for my engine... im almost at whits end with this car and am nearly ready to get it back to where it needs to be and sell it off...

 

[Guest]

I was having a similar experience as Tom, I would have a bit of ticking on startup which would go away by the time I got to the end of the street. It was only a short time, but still annoying.

So when this thread sparked up a couple of weeks ago, I remembered Trevs (i think) advise of having the oil filled right to the top of the marking. It was a couple of mm below the marking so I filled it back to the top and now the ticking has gone away, enough for me not to notice for the past 2 weeks, this thread reminded me